Phoenix on Mars

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hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 221



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 2:11 PM 

The sol 34 scoop soil looks sticky and the TEGA sprinkle doesn't seemed to have worked.

a sol 33 RAC super 3D montage is here and the sol 34 views of Snow White are here.

And finally, a sol 30-34 comparison of the dirty deck near MECA WCL scoop here.

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 222



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 3:43 PM 

Who knows what details lurk in the hearts of scoops?:

OK, the idea was to confirm no change in the soil in the scoop after the TEGA sprinkle, so I stretched the hell out of the shadow details with a fourth root brightness transformation.

As expected, I didn't see any changes.

However, I did notice that there seemed to be darkened edges along the "gullies" leading from the back to the front of the scoop!

NOW, this could be "image artifact" -- but I'm betting not.

Notice that the same dark channels seem to be in this RAC version of the scoop:

But it can't be evidence of a liquid flowing in the scoop! Right? right?? right???

max [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: xxx

Reply: 223



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 3:59 PM 

it could be larger pebbles rolling down

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 224



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 4:03 PM 

Looking at the images in reply 222 again, it occurred to me that I may have got the drainage direction wrong.

Perhaps there was condensation on the scoop overnight and when the sun warmed the scoop for a magical few minutes the temperature was right for liquid water to form and flow from front to back, creating the channels and mucking up the soil so that it "stuck" to the scoop.

Of course, it could all be just a part of my fevered Phoenix fantasy.

Naaah. I'm sure the very model of a modern Major-Scientist would comment if this observation were true.

rpage [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 351

Reply: 225



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 10:16 PM 

Horton,
The bottom image of Reply 222 kind of reminds me of what you might get if you mix up an handfull of mud with sand gravel and talcum powder.

From Reply 218 "Here":
Amazing stuff! Image # EFF89160121 shows a previously deposited gravel bar that is partially eroded. The eroded gully in the gravel bar has larger gravel pieces and no smaller gravel pieces indicating that there was a higher flow (higher transport energy) involved that removed smaller pieces of gravel. This shows that there was originally a fine to medium gravel bar deposited in a stream. Later there was a higher water flow going throught the channel. This higher flow removed smaller pieces of gravel leaving only pieces of coarser (larger diameter) gravel. I'm still not sure what the exact scale is but judging by the relative size it's obvious there were at least 2 separate events. Judging by the subrounded to subangular shapes of some of this gravel you can tell that some of it is very old and has been reworked (rerolled in stream beds) many times. Wind erosion and corrosion also tend to sometimes round sharp edges but some of what I see must be abrasion by other rocks rolloing in a liquid environment.

There are other images in Horton's "here" link that show gullies with no gravel but gravel surroundin the gullies. In these gullies the gravel was swept away in the channel and there was no heavier gravel present. I could be wrong but these features do seem to imply flowing water.

rpage [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 351

Reply: 226



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 10:20 PM 

Horton,
The bottom image of Reply 222 kind of reminds me of what you might get if you mix up an handfull of mud with sand gravel and talcum powder.

From Reply 218 "Here":
Amazing stuff! Image # EFF89160121 shows a previously deposited gravel bar that is partially eroded. The eroded gully in the gravel bar has larger gravel pieces and no smaller gravel pieces indicating that there was a higher flow (higher transport energy) involved that removed smaller pieces of gravel. This shows that there was originally a fine to medium gravel bar deposited in a stream. Later there was a higher water flow going throught the channel. This higher flow removed smaller pieces of gravel leaving only pieces of coarser (larger diameter) gravel. I'm still not sure what the exact scale is but judging by the relative size it's obvious there were at least 2 separate events. Judging by the subrounded to subangular shapes of some of this gravel you can tell that some of it is very old and has been reworked (rerolled in stream beds) many times. Wind erosion and corrosion also tend to sometimes round sharp edges but some of what I see must be abrasion by other rocks rolling in a liquid environment.

There are other images in Horton's "here" link that show gullies with no gravel but gravel surrounding the gullies. In these gullies the gravel was swept away in the channel and there was no heavier gravel present. I could be wrong but these features do seem to imply flowing water.

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 227



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 11:09 PM 

sol 34-35 super 3D of "sticky" soil:

Er, there have been a few frains move while trying to shake the soil loose -- but the intricate lattice that is clearly visible in 3D still holds.

Color view of the soil:

sol 35 SSI 3D animation view of 2nd attempt to free the soil is here and the RAC view is here

Thanks for the comments. Say, where is everyone else? On holiday in Philadelphia?

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 228



PostPosted: June 30, 2008 11:13 PM 

Well this is weird. My last post seems to have vanished. I will try again...

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 229



PostPosted: July 1, 2008 6:19 PM 

Have anybody noticed two very similar rocks, with "double-mouth" holes on the left side?
Letting the imagination lose, they are like termite costructs petrified, with two entrances each.

e Shocked s

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 230



PostPosted: July 1, 2008 6:31 PM 

Here are the stereos:

es

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 231



PostPosted: July 1, 2008 6:36 PM 

does it take pictures anymore?

Banjo from Australia

Posts: xxx

Reply: 232



PostPosted: July 1, 2008 11:39 PM 

Dear all

Thank you everyone for your contributions. I have been enjoying reading this forum over the past few weeks. I am far from a scientist and so this will be my first and final posting.

There is something I am a little confused over and would be grateful for some direction.

The media were saying a few weeks ago that the mission of Phoenix was to see if life has ever existed on Mars. Now the media seems to be saying that the mission's purpose is to ascertain whether Mars ever had conditions that could have supported life.

What is the bottom line? Is the Phoenix mission hoping to find (a) evidence of past or present life on Mars or (b) evidence that life could have existed and to determine if it actually did we will need more missions to Mars?

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 233



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 12:05 AM 

sol 36-36 "wiggle animation" of icy soil in the scoop changes:

with a link to a super 3D view.

That is some sticky soil! Only a few grains have been shaken loose. Most of the soil mass is still intact.

Er, Banjo, Phoenix has no "life detection" experiments on board -- unlike Viking which did -- over 30 years ago.

The only way Phoenix could discover life would be if it mooned us in the microscopes -- or maybe in the Robot Arm Camera ( RAC ) -- which is what took the pictures in this reply. At it's best the RAC camera can take pictures with a 30 micron per pixel resolution -- so a goodly sized Martian colony of bacteria should be visible.

Hmmm.

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 234



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 7:37 AM 

sol 36 "filler flash" RAC RGB view of the scoop soil:

The soil "stains" in the bottom of the scoop appear darker and finer than the pile of soil in the back. I'm not sure if the color difference between the top and the bottom of the pile is "real". We're talking super stretched JPG pixels here, but there does seem to be a uniform top to bottom change in appearance.

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 235



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 7:43 AM 

Oops. Just noticed my picture title was wrong for the animation in reply 233: should be sol 35-36. Boy do I miss and editing feature on this site.

Hey Mark, is that possible?

Mizar [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 119

Reply: 236



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 1:25 PM 

I'm wondering about how this stickiness will have an impact to the samples delivered to these instruments?

Not expected that sticky soil ?
What is it in this stuff ?

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 237



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 1:39 PM 

sol 34-36 R1abc 1x6 panorama of Wonderland:

Each of the frames is an R1 image colorized with 1/2 size RABC registered images.

As good as it gets from me until maximum resolution fill filter sequences are done of this area.

mann

Posts: xxx

Reply: 238



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 12:55 AM 

Thanks for all the stuff to look at horton. I am realy enjoying all of your hard work.

was this puddle created when the rockets melted the ice, or an older event?

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 239



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 8:23 AM 

mann, re:238

I guess you mean darker right angled area on the right, with another mouthed rock on it?

Qute puzzling stuff Cool

eS

mann

Posts: xxx

Reply: 240



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 12:57 PM 

ES, to the left of the big rock on the bottom, you will see the area where the soil has turned to liquid and flowed a bit.

right above this area is a bright patch that might have been the sorce of the moisture, or pehaps the dark area you refer to.

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