Phoenix on Mars

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hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 141



PostPosted: June 13, 2008 7:38 AM 

a1call, yes there is "3D" in reply 139: the sort created by the RAC focus "zoom" sequence. It's very subtle -- but there.

The real purpose of the "3D" is to convince you of the reality of the very fine details in the little clumps of soil.

a1call [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 45

Reply: 142



PostPosted: June 13, 2008 9:19 AM 

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I am spoiled by your superb "super 3D" posts for the MER.

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 143



PostPosted: June 13, 2008 10:30 AM 

sol 18 trenching animation:

You must view the original size to see the animation.

I have cropped the sequence to just the trench. These are R2 ( 447 nm - "blue" ) images. I think an infrared sequence would have been more interesting.

Here is a blue-infrared false color 3D of the trench before the sol 18 dig.

Here is a RAC RGB animation of the sol 17 MECA soli dump.

Here is a panoramic view of the MECA instrument and a 3D view near TEGA.

And finally a sol 17 zoom animation of soil in the scoop:

I'm looking forward to the 3PM EST televised Phoenix press conference.

Oh boy, oh boy! What's under the tree?

danajohnson0 [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 487

Reply: 144



PostPosted: June 13, 2008 2:48 PM 

Max, the transience of temperature, in subsurface eruptions, active chemistry, impact zones, should be considered in warming locally, as well.
It is difficult to adapt to thinking about the sunny arctic of Mars as frozen tundra in these views, but, even as it is so, the higher energy right at the surface is entirely different than what we receive here on Earth after Earth's extreme filtering effects. We have no equivalent experience here anywhere on Earth. Mars will be different in detailed processes.
I can take a well hydrated gypsum crystal which is as translucent as glass, and placing it in a microwave oven for a time, largely remove the water from it, causing the crystal to become opaque and white internally.
The Mars surface has been baking the surface materials for hundreds of millions of years similarly, causing a very altered soil right at the surface. Not only will it look different, but it will be differently responsive to water and other potential liquids, in all phases.
I can tell you are technically trained somewhat, and I respect that expertise. I am saying this as I here the sameness of information repeated from research papers, but evidence shows many unexplained 'mud-like' effects in images from Mars. The water is present on Mars, and appears to be active, whether a standing liquid or not.
It only requires variation in one quality(pressure) to produce acceptable conditions for standing bodies of liquid water on Mars. Other potential materials may achieve activity as well as water.
.
I enlarged the scoop image Horton used in the animation. Source was the original at the Phoenix gallery site. Raised brightness about ten points of 127 total scale, contrast increased very slightly, reduced noise at 3x3 binning, dpi increased to 720 first, no other changes. No info beyond the Horton flickr image, but the size gives some easy viewing. A better lens would have helped. A better file type, as well. This is at 400% enlargement.
lg_4768
.

.
Perhaps the OM imaging will give us what we are looking for- some real mineral content, and some detail.
While this is not a comprehensive collection of microscopy items and minerals, it is an interesting and probably pertinant set of crystal and mineral particles related to some of the Martian minerals at the MER sites. Provided to stimulate some thinking about 'stickiness' and lumpy, fibrous, effects. The gallery images of sulfates and iron minerals at the lower right are a great starting point for pre-OM thinking.
Hopefully the views of Mars Phoenix samples are on the way.
.
Best guesses on bound soil water and ice present right at the surface?

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 145



PostPosted: June 13, 2008 4:07 PM 

This one seem to be more or less feasible stereo of the groung in a scoop

Cool

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 146



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 3:52 AM 

Now this incredible object,

Could it be wood or bone? No rocks like this are lying around Smile

eS

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 147



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 10:27 AM 

RAC 3D of trench after sol 19 dig:

Other sol 19 RAC 3D here.

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 148



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 11:21 AM 

I wonder where are our rock people.

Probably, everybody is on the life bandwagon now.

e Razz s

LWS [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1675

Reply: 149



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 11:59 AM 

Hi es

Re. your 145, best image I've seen showing how "muddy" the soil sample looks.

Winston

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 150



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 12:36 PM 

hi LWS,

it is interesting also, that some pieces of soil appear stuck to the edge of scoop.

The adhesion is not limited to the dirt-to-dirt then, and may be electrostatic in nature - but that does not exclude possibility that water vapor pressure and CO2 atmsphere influences it - just guessing.

Best,

es

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 151



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 7:46 PM 

sol 6-19 changes under the lander:

A couple of black spots moving or vanishing ( besides the dead pixel shifts after image affine registration ) -- that's about it.

(Of course, I still see a subtle network of linear features ( especially upper left of the ice ) that no one else on this planet sees -- but that's just me.)

Also a sol 19 3D visible / infrared of the trench is here.

I find it interesting that the white chunk uncovered is not the same "color" in the infrared as the layers of white layer in the trench. In fact, there seems to be quite a variety of "whitish" areas in the infrared -- including areas relatively brighter in infrared than in the visible...

OK infrared guys, what are we seeing?

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 152



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 9:15 PM 

Here is an animation sequence through the infrared filters looking at the trench on sol 19.

Perhaps the, um, white stuff, is disappearing more rapidly near the darker ( warmer ) exposed edges?

The exposed white clump is fairly dark in the infrared. Maybe it "dried up" quickly because of a large surface/ volume ratio?

The in the next week all this should start to "make sense".

LWS [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1675

Reply: 153



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 10:19 PM 

Hi hort

I saw the filaments etc. but I was wondering if they were due to pixellation, they are so many of them.

Here's an anaglyph crop of the latest sol 19 trench image with some filaments and some rotini like structures. The area of interest is near the centre of the crop, looks like the scoop scraped off a covering of "ice" and exposed the filamentous structures below.

SS019EFF897905015_127FEL1M1-glyph-crop-rotini.jpg

The filaments etc. are very small, if indeed they are real and not pixellation effects, use stereo-image maker at 150 to 200 % to see them.

Winston

LWS [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1675

Reply: 154



PostPosted: June 14, 2008 10:20 PM 

Oops that should be

Winston

rpage [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 351

Reply: 155



PostPosted: June 15, 2008 12:45 AM 

Horton, regarding Reply 151.
I see the subtle network of linear features that you refer to. Upon closer inspection, maybe I should have ignored them because they look pretty strange.

There appears to be a linear structure arrangement of concentric circles intersected by radial branching linear features.

On the biology side it appears to be a structure similar to that of stromatolites.

On the inorganic side it may be a pixelation effect.

Also, I wonder what effect the landing jets had on the surficial soil. Could the landing thrusters have made this structure or did the thrusters remove overlying soils to reveal the subsurface structure.

LWS [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1675

Reply: 156



PostPosted: June 15, 2008 7:55 AM 

Hi rpage

I've also wondered about the effects of the landing jets and if we are just seeing such effects in the soil. But then I do not expect the Phoenix team to make such mistakes. I've asked before if the arm could reach the unaffected soil. Anyone knows?

Here's a 1.5X magnification of my "rotini" structures in the trench with an arrow pointing to the structures

Winston

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 157



PostPosted: June 15, 2008 10:23 AM 

Do not jump to x-rrated analogies Razz

this is superstereo of ice-hole under the Phoenix

eS

extrasense [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 1083

Reply: 158



PostPosted: June 15, 2008 1:20 PM 

Now,

which one do you like better:

eS

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 159



PostPosted: June 15, 2008 2:40 PM 

Here is animation of changes in the trench from sol 19 to 20. The "bright clump" disappeared from the left trench on sol 20 -- but 4 hours later a similar size "rock" appears in the right most trench.

Same rock turned over???

Here is another L217689ACB filter animation of the sol 20 trench.

Notice the interesting "glint" in the sequence.

hortonheardawho [TypeKey Profile Page]

Posts: 388

Reply: 160



PostPosted: June 15, 2008 3:12 PM 

er, the white rock seems to have been broken and scattered in the shadowed area of the leftmost trench.

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