Mars Glaciers

Author Message
Ben







PostPosted: December 28, 2006 1:43 PM 

Several of the HiRise 12-27 images indicate glacial activity. 1426-200 shows what appears to be a lobate ice sheet with associated flow features. There are also a couple of cirques that contain glaciers which are flowing downslope and merging with the main glacier.
Image 1448-1735 shows a series of short, elongated ridges composed of coarse material resting on what appears to be a glaciated plain. These ridges are similar to drumlins on earth.

Mizar Author Profile Page


Posts: 642

Reply: 1



PostPosted: December 29, 2006 11:20 AM 

Hi Ben.

[link]
And
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/PSP/PSP_001426_2200/
and
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/PSP/PSP_001448_1735/

On many of these images, the mountains looks like many
mountain in Norway. Shaped by glaciation.

And the main site:
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/PSP/


nanobot


Posts: 2

Reply: 2



PostPosted: December 29, 2006 4:34 PM 

Check this one out that recently came down from Mars Odyssey Themis :

http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20061222a

This image shows part of one of the many mesas that comprise Deuteronilus Mensae as well as the surrounding debris slope and plains surface. The surface texture/patterns indicate that subsurface volitiles may exist in this region.

Ahem ... may exist?

Ben Author Profile Page


Posts: 2036

Reply: 3



PostPosted: December 29, 2006 5:49 PM 

nanobot: I looked at that and am not sure what the evidence of volatiles is. A bunch of cracks but where are the volatiles coming out ?

nanobot Author Profile Page


Posts: 2

Reply: 4



PostPosted: December 29, 2006 8:52 PM 

You rock guys just don't get it. What is it with geologists that they have such a hard time with new concepts, such as plate tectonics, and astrobiology. Oh well.

Ok, let me try to put it to you in the simplist of terms. Mars is a water saturated planet. It always has been, and it probably always will be, certainly now that it is nearly frozen solid. In some areas of the crust, the water dominates, and in other parts it has been cooked out by volcanism, simple desiccation and by substitution, decompostion, dehydroxylation, slow evaporation and sublimation, or whatever transport processes are at work here, some yet to be determined. Whatever happened in these massive flows and outbursts in recent times, happened either cyclically or abruptly, the result being massive melting and movement of the more water saturated strata. However, once that ceased everything just freezes into place, and that is what we are observing. If you can't see the action of water on almost everything here short of the most superficial desiccated layer, well, there is simply no hope for you.

This isn't Earth. These aren't spiffy fresh glaciers laid down in 100,000 years from fresh water recently distilled from a vast ocean reservoir, this is a dusty dirty muddy planet dominated by vast volcanic plateues, a formerly huge northern reservoir, and recently formed icecaps and frozen mud glaciers. Everything north and south of 60 degrees is nearly 70 percent water in the top meter of soil.

Now do please tell us, what do you find so freakin hard to understand about abundant water on Mars? This image, in particular, screams 'subsurface ice sheets', and I anxiously await many more interesting and dramatic photos, now that we are zeroing in on the precise locations of some of the more densely water saturated crust. The whole water on Mars thing is snowballing, now that we are getting the real MRO goods, and not just the MGS scale answers. Anybody with a problem with water on Mars now, may as well scream to the world that they're just another crackpot geologist with some bizarre axe to grind. Do you believe in the steady state universe as well?

Take a very large wet muddy water planet (Mars is very large - #8 in the solar system), apply intense volcanism, waning over time, simultaneously turn off the magnetic field and let the atmosphere dissipate, and what you get is water well mixed with the crust, and then concentrated in certain areas according to the evolutionary outcome of the volcanism verses the glaciation - which is Mars as we see it today, frozen solid in the act of melting, covered with a very this layer of cooked out regolith. I expect Ceres to be very similar at the surface, but much more dramatic.

Ben Author Profile Page


Posts: 2036

Reply: 5



PostPosted: December 29, 2006 10:44 PM 

nanobat: Calm down. If you have read any of this geologists posting over the last year you should know that I am a strong proponent of water on Mars and have been so bold as to propose that sculpting of VC has been in part due to glaciation.

There is little doubt that ice may be present beneath the surface in the themis image , I was just hoping that there was evidence of volatiles currently reaching the surface.

Kye Goodwin Author Profile Page


Posts: 987

Reply: 6



PostPosted: December 31, 2006 3:18 AM 

Ben, Robert Clark posted this Cristensen paper in another thread (Water Frost on Gullies on the Forum page):

[link]

It is a great resource for the topic of Mars glaciers, especially because most of the references are directly linked to abstracts.

To paraphrase a little of the general idea in this paper and its references: If Mars' spin axis obliquity is changing chaotically between 0 and 60 degrees on a time scale of 100,000 to 1,000,000 years then it is likely that there have been recent periods of high obliquity where water ice has been transferred from the polar caps to low-latitudes. Nowadays there seems to be remnant dirty snow covering areas of mid-latitude poleward-facing slope and sometimes these areas also have gullies. I don't know about glaciers, but this paper suggests that several meters of snow or ice might have affected much more of the surface in the recent past.

Ben Author Profile Page


Posts: 2036

Reply: 7



PostPosted: December 31, 2006 6:06 PM 

Kye: Thanks for bringing this well written document to my attention.
The only point where I might disagree is whether the source material is snow or dust-covered or dirty ice.
Cristensen's fig 2 looks very much like alpine glaciers on earth with the flow ridges, central moraines and transverse fractures in the ice near the toe.

What do you suppose the angle of slope is?

I would really like to see this in High-res.

TomDehel Author Profile Page


Posts: 58

Reply: 8



PostPosted: January 7, 2007 12:50 PM 

Hey, geologists,
I was looking at Valle Marinaras and on Google Mars (the elevation map), and it looks like water flows from near the volcanos rushed through and carved it, then deposited the boulders and rocks in the area that Viking 1 landed. I can imagine that great amounts of subsurface ice were melted by the volcanos to cause this water. Is this something obvious to a geologist, or is it the ravings of an amateur?

Thanks!

Ben Author Profile Page


Posts: 2036

Reply: 9



PostPosted: January 7, 2007 2:17 PM 

Tom: I am inclined to think the valle was created by crustal movement along the Mars equator and may be due to a large impact on the planet or instability due to wobbling of the axis or many other things.

The valle shows the effect of subsequent,water related erosion but I doubt that nearby volcanic activity was responsible for the release of water that caused most of it.

The tectonic forces that formed the valley probably had a big impact on the geothermal gradient which allowed melting of surface or subsurafce ice.

KPM Author Profile Page


Posts: 805

Reply: 10



PostPosted: January 7, 2007 5:05 PM 

Freedom of speach..nice one nanabot.

Listen to all here......we can all learn.

We know it's wet, we know it has life.

Why do you think we are going back time and time again?

Soon

Cool




Join the conversation:















Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised
Shocked Confused Cool Laughing
Mad Razz Embarassed Crying or Very Sad
Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
Powered by MTSmileys