Liquid_seepage_on_Mars_in_dunes

I'll present a few of the closeups of this HiRISE image, and return to discuss the main image and details of the obvious water or liquid drainage seen in the closeups.
A fine image and area for liquid particulate association.
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Can this show a transient flow, or, is this a true liquid flow or movement of water or other liquid assembly, between the dune and 'pingo' dome arrays?

ESP_014293_1080

Google Earth 5 view of the source HiRISE image location.
The image location is marked in yellow near the top of the image. The South Polar ice cap of Mars is partly visible near the bottom of the image. As the image is reasonably new, from August 14, 2009, the Latitude and longitude figures must be used to find the crater where the dune field is located.
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The area generally shows signs of either regular wet weather events in the water and ice cycle, or, may show catastrophic or seasonal flooding from rare events. I would think both patterns are recorded in the region.
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Landslides and mud-flows are both not visible in the image significantly, and are not a substantial cause in the actions recorded. Ground liquid presence and movement, and material concentration differentiation and possible alteration is recorded as a result of liquid material interactions.
Does anyone have a chemistry process from research, or personal knowledge to explain the dark, depressed, centers of the bright domes, or the bright lower elevation linear flows over the scarp margins which have broadened and traversed horizontally along the scarp faces upon reaching the gentler sloped margins in the steppes?
Does this all appear to be controlled by a water liquid basis, or is another liquid possibly involved as well?
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A link to the HiRISE index page, ESP_014293_1080, and a view of one of the smaller full images in B&W.

The ESP_014293_1080 HiRISE observation seems like another nice example of southern hemisphere crater floor "action". Unfortunatly this observation is only at 50cm/Pixel so the polygonal surface texture of parts of this observation is visible faintly only. It still looks like the dried up river/lake beds proposed lateley. The color changes troughout this observation should be noted also.

The google mars context IR image looks quite interesting as well:
http://www.google.de/mars/#lat=-71.958583&lon=110.374145&zoom=8&map=infrared

My favourite regarding seepage like observation is this:

Mawrth Vallis (floor of main channel) ESP_011383_2030 - 50% zoom:

note the smoothed out area below the hill

I believe there is a story in the works about the south polar region, but I am not 'in' the line as yet on the widespread flooding or regular throughput of liquids across the circumpolar south of Mars. The area shows directional erosion, with medium to large craters in some spots degraded directionally, others seemingly unaffected.
The record of older and larger events such as cratering should present an eventual history record of catastrophic flooding or severe localized weathering.
This image is indeed difficult to judge at 50cm/pixel, and the smallest viewable features are the gullies which seem to be directioned by following the irregular polygon fissured terrain, and at other spots following fault type linear processes. I assume the liquids or other weathering processes are dominated over time by the preconditioning of the fissured and faulted main structural character of the current appearances. As both are seen, it would indicate that the flow of liquids would be less influential than the major geological events, such as permafrost, sublimation, impacts, and particulate 'breathing'.
The smaller bright dome features are very depressed at the centers, fissured in a patterned narrow range, and show a large loss of bulk mass either in a single event, over time, or, repeatedly.
The fissure patterns of the bright depressed core domes show a match to the fissure patterns of the Spider/Fan structures of the more polar ranged Spider/Fan outcrops. I was hoping someone could estimate if this was a matter of simple 'polar wander' or a indication of a far more extensive ice cap in colder times, or the result of the ancient southern impacting. In that regard, the surface currently viewed seems relatively free of smaller impacting events seen as actual cratering in this image, but as this is claimed to be a dune field type of fissured ground, the smaller impacts may be reworked and converted to domes as a result of the interaction0n of a deep subsurface material and the particulates.
There is at the core of many of the domes central object where in others the center is a dark rounded 'pit' with a primary fissure leading outward to the margin of the dome.
I was assembling a collection of the domes as a gallery, when my 24" monitor gave out partly, and I spent the weekend trying to correct it. I'll be working on the small gallery of rotated images to show the patterns this week. I regret losing one of a pair of monitors, as these are relics, and irreplaceable as a set of two.
Perhaps if we had a planet with a similar lack of water basins at present, and a thin atmosphere, we would have a record of similar terrain other than the Earth permafrost types which are the closest match.
The concept that the domes are the product of impacted stimulation of the ground seems untenable to me, as the features are well formed, none in transition perhaps, and the central elevated objects would be a unexplained secondary process. These appear related to, and formed similarly to the polar Spider/Fans to my understanding.
Can the equatorial Mawrth Vallis show any similar terrain, related in processes other than liquid effect on the geology?
Are both areas affected by ground liquids and interstitial ices, or is the equatorial Mawrth area less capable of ice retention with surface erosion showing from liquid flow, and the ESP_014293_1080 crater floor a flood pond with retained residual ices?
I'll be looking for smaller impact craters, and recent erosion of gully/fissure widening. Some of the gullies along the layer/scarp edges show circular points of source liquids, I believe. Can the smaller impacts be the source of erosion on slopes, only recorded there as depressions, and the domes a response to former impacts?
If the slope gullies are not caused by impacts, does the subsurface abound at times with liquids flowing below the surface, released as a 'stream' with a gully of some width draining from the circular source of liquid horizontal travel where the liquid level is stable?
I get the impression of percolation, rather than only sublimating volatiles with a bright deposited dome or margin. Even some of the gullies are bright and not depressed where bright and altered.
Bright material as a salt type and not a residual ice? A CRISM image of the crater floor is needed, and more imagery in detail.

I should correct my assessment that the slopes are not affected by landsliding solids, as the larger slopes show a subdued repeated lesser fan type material at intervals, shaded very slightly, and not cutting into the upper slope face. The material has accumulated near to the slope lower elevations, forming in one a bright broad fan close to the slope face.

http://spacefellowship.com/2009/11/23/large-ocean-extensive-river-network-rainfall-on-ancient-mars/

How about THIS for seepage,Dana?

See Kevin's link posted today on "Muddy Mars"

I eagerly wait for your thoughts.
Joe in Texas

Look very closely at this picture. http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA12491
I'm convinced thats water in those craters. It even looks like some of the rocks are underwater. I can't see how wind would cause such a clearly defined transition.

re: PIA12491: Dune Symmetry Inside Martian Crater:

What a totally cool picture! I downloaded the TIF version and applied a non-linear brightness transform and spent about 1/4 hour studying it.

My best guess is the regular distribution of the dunes in the crater is the result of standing atmospheric waves in the crater - caused a steady wind blowing across the lip of the crater.

Here are some examples of standing wave clouds on the Earth.

The heavy particles ( rocks ) should be at the nodes. And the nodes should be precisely 1/2 the length of the atmospheric standing wave.

I would guess the sound made by the wave is 1000 octaves below middle C ( Just kidding - but the frequency of the sound wave can be easily calculated. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to do so.

Fair comment but if that were the case, wouldn't the heavier larger particles migrate to the troughs and be covered in lighter particles? Can't you see the colour difference where the liquid is?

Alan, the rocks would be in the troughs - which are at the nodes - where the air motion would be up, up and away.

Glider pilots use such standing waves, called a Lee wave to gain altitude.

The most curious feature is the red band near the base of the dunes.

Some of the rocks near the dune edges are covered in dust - is that what you are seeing?

Are you looking at the full resolution tif version of the image?

hi horton
Yes I am looking at the large tif. i still think it looks like liquid. Theres even a blue tint below a certain level. Even the ripples look like they were caused by liquid. I'm not certain but maybe the red bands are some kind of surface relection.

The one sure way of confirming a liquid surface is to catch the glint of a sun reflection.

Well one thing is apparent, each red band is the same distance from each shoreline( you have to look at it from my point of view of course). It's just too much of a coincidence for the distance to average out so neatly. it has to be a surface artifact. I'm sticking to my guns anyway.

Omg, check this link http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/594/pia12491brightened.png
All I did was add a little brightness, nothing else, no colour or anything.

PIA12491: Dune Symmetry Inside Martian Crater:

From reply 7,,,,one of the most aw-so-me pictures that have come from Mars,,,a 9.1 megabyte file but totally worth it!!!

Thanks Hort
Joe.

Alan in reply 13 cant get your link to work,,,,but you and Hort are right,,,,it a mind blowing picture.

Just got it to work and WOW WOW WOW
Stunning,,,do another,Alan,and another and another.
Joe in Texas

I know in my first post I said,I thought this image showed water. Sorry, I didn't mean to say "water", I meant "liquid", probably methanol or liquid methane. Tell me this isn't liquid if you like but I wont believe ya..lol.
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8634/pia12491hirezbrightened.png

Alan, dont trust them HiRISE colors - they are synthetic those not real color. The only colors which can be "trusted" is red, brown, black and to some extend white. Blue and green cant be separated as HiRISE havnt got real RGB type sensors. The BG part of the HiRISE "RGB" strips are close approximations to what the real eye would see while the blue part is completely synthetic (added - most of times even too much which i already talked about with a HiRISE teammember...).

Regarding liquid methane: i dont think its cold enough for this type of liquid on Mars.

MPJ thanks for your input. Regarding the colours being synthetic, I don't think it really matters, the fact is that there is a perceived colour change, and all at the same elevation. Anyway, thanks for clarifying the liquid methane thing. I find it confusing trying to account for the atmospheric pressure and gravity along with temperature.