Curious about Curiosity - Page 33

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Posts: 3465

Reply: 641

PostPosted: September 30, 2012 5:44 PM 

tbeech, thanks for the original "raw" image reference. I will be sure to look at it closely in a year or so.

Are you concerned only that the panoramas are manipulated - or are you advocating something more sinister?

ALL panoramas - including mine - are manipulations.

IF the individual frames are not taken with a camera on a panoramic head and IF a single exposure and color balance was not used for all the frames - there MUST be artistic decisions made to create an ersatz panorama from the data.

I notice in particular that the rock in question is near a frame edge and close to the rover where the non-panoramic distortions would be greatest. It is not at all surprising that the brightness of that particular rock would suffer stitching modifications.

Er, have you ever worked with any stitching software? These kinds of issues are common with images NOT taken correctly - especially for subjects close to the camera.

I had high hopes that NASA would "get it right" for at least the telephoto camera when they were designing the camera mast - but they didn't. I remember seeing an early design that showed the right mastcam mounted in a cradle mount that seemed to pivot through the camera's optical center. But it was not the final design.

I do not believe there is any proof that any of the original data has been tampered with.

You have an interesting history of photographic interests - somewhat similar to mine.

I too have an extensive history of dark room work ( including custom color lab work fifty years ago when *dag-nab-it* you actually had to know something to create a good color image), underwater photography ( I was a PADI divemaster ) and digital photography stretching back to the original Sony Mavicka. ( I still have some of the original floppy diskettes! ). I have been doing panoramas since then.

The panoramas and the "raw" images that NASA releases are strictly PR stunts. The real data is **BY LAW ** publicly released in a timely manner - usually 6 to 9 months after taken. There would be deep doo-doo if that information was faked.

Olof Yngve

Posts: 1

Reply: 642

PostPosted: September 30, 2012 6:16 PM 

Gentlemen, there is more to see in the photos in replies 623 and 624. Far away, hidden in the haze, is a mountain ridge.
I found that out by playing with photoshop. I am sure you can do that also. I tried to post my result here, but did not succed.
All the best,
Olof Yngve


Posts: 3465

Reply: 643

PostPosted: September 30, 2012 6:21 PM 

This topic is continued in the topic Glenelg.

Please post comments about the exploration of Glenelg in the new topic.


Posts: 250

Reply: 644

PostPosted: October 1, 2012 5:51 AM 

Horton, I understand the problems of stitching badly "aimed" shots for panoramas. What I dont understand is that such obviously badly flawed "panormamas" are published on websites with like millions of visitors. Even I can work on my private images to get pans without obviously duplicated whole sectors - if thats not possible I dont make a panorama with the given sources at all - even for private usage.

Is NASA really that careless or have they only amateur staff which just cant do any better respectively? Actually I take such as an insult to the public if they continue to publish trash - this goes for the degraded semi-raw data as well. If they dont want the public to "steal" putative NASA findings in advance they should just say so and label the "raws" accordingly...


Posts: xxx

Reply: 645

PostPosted: October 1, 2012 3:26 PM 

I am indeed suggesting something more sinister. They will only be in 'deep doo doo' if they are caught. If the dept. of defense considers life on Mars to be a national security issue all of the laws in the world won't stop them from manipulating the images, even the ones they release in 9 months.

As I'm sure you are aware one of the first tasks upon landing is to take and return a full 360 panorama at the highest resolution. This is called the insurance pan, named because if anything goes wrong once they start operation at least they will have this. Below I have cropped and brought together the ends of the sol 3 panorama. As you can see we have not even seen the entire landing site. I also downloaded all of the sol 3 mastcam images and assembled my own panorama. The missing section has not been filled in. They are definitely hiding something.

Have you noticed that they point the front hazard cameras in the general direction of mount sharp before taking any images with it? Is that just PR because they think that's all the public wants to see? I know that not all of the hazard images are centered on mt. sharp, most are but the others are all in the same general direction.

I realize that most Americans refuse to consider that NASA would lie to them about life on Mars and I'll never convince them with crappy images but let me ask you this:
Below is the image I posted before but this time I have added a white circle. If you were scuba diving would you pick up the rock in the white circle?


Posts: 3465

Reply: 646

PostPosted: October 1, 2012 4:59 PM 

Tim, as you point out on your web site, there are a lot of peculiar rocks on Mars that are in plain sight - so why hide anything? There is no need to do so.

I too have a fondness for the peculiar. If you search my Flickr photos with the search term "peculiar" (I just did that for you ) you will come up with 400+ images that I have labelled "peculiar" - and had I been driving the rovers, they would have stopped and examined each and every one more closely. Of course, Oppy would most likely still be in Eagle crater if I had been in charge. ( Universe in a grain of sand and all that. )

But what I am doing is not science. It's just pure curiosity about that which is. And having fun.

By Einstein's razor every one of these 400+ peculiar Martian rocks must be explained by any theory of Martian rocks. Perhaps there are 401 special cases in the theory - but every-one must be explained. If it fails to explain number 402 - then the theory is wrong.

The geologist has an easy answer to peculiar shaped rocks: shape doesn't matter in geology. They're ALL rocks.

So Why hide shapes? They don't matter to geologist. Period. Full stop.

See? No sinister thoughts. Just routine geological thought.

I have no illusions that there are not groups that would suppress any evidence that doesn't agree with their world view - if they could - but I don't believe that any such groups are in any position to do anything other than argue "my holy book says it ain't so" if any scientific evidence becomes available to show that there is ( or was ) life on Mars.

Anyway, I hope you are having as much fun as I am.

I'm done with this topic.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 647

PostPosted: October 1, 2012 7:51 PM 

Fair enough Horton, I'm done too.

But let me leave you with a quote from Dr. Gilbert Levin of Viking lander LR life detection experiment fame:
"Shortly before he died, Sir Fred Hoyle visited me for the purpose of warning me that there was deep political motivation behind government efforts to suppress information about life on Mars. He said the matter ran so deep that I should take personal precautions. In our discussions, he raised the possibility that, not only had the VLR detected life on Mars, but that, in a clandestine return sample mission to Mars, the U.S. Government had obtained living microorganisms which were now under cultivation for potential applications mandated secret for now. Since then, several others have similarly cautioned me. Now, most recently, Professor Chandra Wickramasinghe, a disciple and successor to Nobel laureate Fred Hoyle at Cardiff University, is quoted as saying (19) "I think there could be political and sociological considerations at work.""

So long,


Posts: 1195

Reply: 648

PostPosted: October 3, 2012 8:06 PM 

Horton, two questions. First, my repeats are never more than C&P of the original post content being posted. I never use word processors, as seen in my numerous typo's.
I did find in my 'Slimbrowser' a bug in the C&P at the Google toolbar. Sometimes the C&P process leaves a copy on the search address bar for the Google search. That occurs at times when I find the processor running near 90-100%, and when the browser locks up, during the attempt to post. Somewhere in the processes or coding a call cycling is locked on. It appears like a online attack controlling the CPU, as in 'denial of service' styled attack. In have reinstalled several browsers and reinstalled the toolbar. Perhaps Google has a closet pirate in the coding rooms somewhere.
On the other hand, I still cannot access some of the topics on marsroverblog even now. And always the content was transferred to the blog before the errors are claimed.

The panoramas usually have a blending formula. That seems to be the reason for the good horizon line mating in my example of duplication.

If anyone is interested, I posted a description of closeups of a sol 54 image at 'Exploration of Gale Crater-part two', and I need ID's for some of the items. Similar to Meridiani objects for some, and, here at Gale reticulation surfaced nodules with apparently Liesegang type reaction-diffusion banding, or amigdule transport cores, similar to some I have seen in Death Valley.

Some are dark spheroids with bright 'leg's end oriented.

I think the traverse needs more detailing. A micro-imager with several simultaneous chips and lens ports would be efficient.

What was Mars like before the dominion of red dust?


Posts: 250

Reply: 649

PostPosted: October 4, 2012 9:30 AM 

"What was Mars like before the dominion of red dust?"
You have to "go" to Mawrth Vallis to have a glimpse of that I guess though looking at a rocket blasted - dust cleaned - area would let you have a very small glimpse of that too in Gale crater. Wink


Posts: xxx

Reply: 650

PostPosted: October 5, 2012 4:58 AM 

MPJ - My theory is it looked like Europa/Enceladus as the atmosphere was lost the ice on the surface slowly sublimated revealing the rock beneath. Underground water ice was protected and as we know is still there to this day.

Francisco J Oyarzun

Posts: xxx

Reply: 651

PostPosted: October 9, 2012 10:02 AM 

My dear fellow conspiracists:

Have we touched upon the classic "little green man" antenna
in the upper right-hand corner of (Curiosity Sol 54) ?


Posts: 3062

Reply: 652

PostPosted: October 10, 2012 6:29 PM 

Testing re. Oyarzun



Posts: xxx

Reply: 653

PostPosted: January 29, 2013 11:25 AM 

Curiosity II slated for 2020, here is a full report from the Planetary Society, if you wish there is a link to all 410 pages that were produced for Congress happy reading!



Posts: xxx

Reply: 654

PostPosted: January 29, 2013 11:35 AM 

Latest from the Planetary Society on Curiosity II also with a link to all 410 pages of the report for Congress!


John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 655

PostPosted: February 10, 2013 7:55 PM 

Kevin i failed to find the damm interesting
sounding 429 page report to congress,,,,,
what I did find was,,,,Fear from NASA that
Obama will discard us as he would a used dish-rag.

The man who would be king controls the purse strings,,,,elected by starry-eyed women and
men who have taken God from our Constitution.

I am afraid America is not your,,,Father's and Mother's America no longer.
Who knows if NASA will be abandoned.
The time has come for Friend and Partner
ESA to step forward and Dream Big.

Another mars mission or a mission to Europa,,
!wow! what a juicy thought is Europa.

Don't worry about the report,,,Kevin,,,,
that is what Google is for.
Just a Thank You for letting me know it is out there.

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 656

PostPosted: February 10, 2013 7:58 PM 

429 came from I know not where,,,,should have been 410

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 657

PostPosted: February 11, 2013 12:22 AM 

Kevin,,,can you give me a little help with that link,,,,,,,,I have not found anything (yet) in Google,,,,,thanks a million

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 658

PostPosted: February 11, 2013 12:25 AM 

Well,,,,,,,,,,,,I see messages that I am SHURE I deleted as being political have shown up here.
Shame on me.
Onward anyway!
The 410 page link?,,,,Google don't wish to cough it up for me.Very interested.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 659

PostPosted: February 11, 2013 6:57 AM 

JD you should be able to access it from here:

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