Curious about Curiosity - Page 3

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Kevin Author Profile Page

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Reply: 41

PostPosted: December 2, 2011 8:11 AM 

#39 It would seem that some think Mars still has some tectonic activity:



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Reply: 42

PostPosted: December 2, 2011 3:22 PM 

Truly a Wacky WEB we have now, here, as I accessed ', the clicked to this topic, and I show '38' entries, rather than the 40 as listed on the linked listed topic title. I am using an emergancy new browser to solve an access problem of locking routine browsers. IE8, FireFox4+, Aurora, and Chrome all don't work on this reworked old machine this week, so, I have loaded a very small 'slimbrowser' to get a fast and stable access to the blog. Somewhere the last days two entries have vaporized.
Perhaps just a long wait will bring back reality to me.
To add to the general conversation about the Gale crater geology and possible water or life-like records there, I want to give my 'Heello' account ping list of images which are a little reduced in size, but descriptive of a few oddities of Mars.
At the bottom of the list is overview of the landing allipse viewpoint, showing on the right side again the long 'fault' I was describing in the missing and prior replies. The appearance as I stated, shows a less obvious linear formation of eroded channels on both rims and between, with a nearly straight line pattern adding to the many other faulting and erosion/tectonic breakdown patterns. It is in sepia coloration. Above that is a view of the elevation generalized mapping appearance of the Dichotomy Zone merging with the crater rims, showing multi-directional faulting-fracturing. The crater has imprinted the rim on a low elevation surface. The tilted blocks are less obvious in that image.
Above that is a south crater floor channel eroded set of steep walls made of layered materials. The appearance is of great removal and alteration from early crater contents, and as in other areas of Mars, the steepness of the walls are related to the direction of the predominating angles of the daytime sunlight angle, with the impression of the darker side being apparently steeper than the sunlighted slopes. This may be largly a product of the geometric correction of the vertical orientation from the 'taking' angle versus the final viewed finished corrected image shown by the HiRISE catalog as nearly vertical and appearing taken directly overhead. I would be interested in some with good inside information and training in astronomy and satellite mapping as to whether the corrected image is accurate in the slopes being varied greatly in steepness as appearance shows in many HiRISE images of various sections of Mars geology. I see this in polar images, ice caps channels, equatorial volcanic chanells and even small volcanic wave-like flows frozen in some locations.
Is this steepness of local dark shadow more rapid cooling(less likely), or is it erosion rates of greater slope incutting over time during erosion descent through the layers(more likely), or, is it a chemistry of Mars generally in varied materials that is responsible for much of the 'mass wasting' we see in a large percentage of images of slopes? It seems unlikely that simple greater debris coverage of the sunlit sides, removed as currently cleared former debris protection would be a failing explanation, as the shaded sides are commonly cleared of debris, and the sunlit sides are not much differing from the volume of debris accumulated. Either convenient angled imaging gives a distortion to the apparent slope measures, or some mechanism is allowing the sunlit slopes to be shallow in angle, and the shadowed slopes are remaining steep. Is the energy difference capable of giving the variation without the presence of water at the sunlit slope areas preferentially? Is water not neccessary for the slope variations? Is the white marking in my dark slope of the Gale crater channel in the fifth image from the bottom, actually a measure of a steeper shadowed slope?
It appears to me that the southern Gale crater channels have been filled at times, or deeply eroded and shaped lobe front margins have passed accross many layers as single formations, now only brighter residual marking and residue edges.
I could imagine any crater this size would leave many formations like this, even if much of the central fill was a post rim process of accrual.
A few links from the last two posts content which add to the Gale crater general suggestion that water or life-like processes may be accessable to us at the MSL landing and roving area.
Number eight in this list of newscientist magazine topics, as a thumbnail image of asteroid effects suggested,
The links above are from New Scientist magazine, former issues. as abstracts. Kevins reply #40 gave a similar linked New Scientist subject about asteroid wind, energy, and water influence. on local tectonics an planetwide alterations.


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Reply: 43

PostPosted: December 2, 2011 10:41 PM 

Not much help Dana without something to look at Sad

John Henry Dough

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Reply: 44

PostPosted: December 3, 2011 1:55 PM 

also reading New Scientist ...has led me to making some erroneous statements.I am not saying it is NOT a good magazine,,,,just that some of its content can be miss-leading.
But Confused I ask you to be careful.I am sure the magazine will improve in time,
Thanks Dana...I liked your word pictures of Gale.Nice.


Posts: 250

Reply: 45

PostPosted: December 5, 2011 6:17 AM 


This time they seems to have a good team which can really looking at the rocks etc. for signs of life.

"Kah is part of a camera team that will search for rocks with features that might indicate the presence of microbial life in the planet's past. The rover will collect soil material and powdered rock samples using its robotic arm to gather, strain, and transfer them into the rover's analytical system.
Kah will then use an instrument capable of detecting both organic molecules and the isotopic signatures often left in rocks by microbial metabolisms.
Kah has studied the role of microbial life in the formation of some of Earth's earliest rocks in such remote places as the West African Sahara desert and Arctic Canada."
"I will be looking for microscopic details visible in layers of rock, unusual assemblages of minerals, and the chemistry of both mineral and organic material to decipher clues to the presence of life, but this time I will be doing it on Mars."

Lets hope the results wont be for the bin if contaminated drill bits will be used to gather samples to verify any findings...


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Reply: 46

PostPosted: December 7, 2011 2:49 AM 

Sections of the big MSL story are being assembled, with many teams both US and beyond.
I do not know the reason for the two inactive links in my entry #42, I'll spend time studying this very small 'slimbrowser', as it may have some limitation only allowing some linked addresses to be active. ?
My Heello adress again, adding a superfluos 'www' prefix as a check on coding active links.
The last three lowest images were the info referenced.

The unusual appearances of the many angles of view of the Gale crater terrain give me a need to experiment with possible causes for the various differing views. What a severe active history was present over billions of years.
The appearance of two primary historical erosion alteration periods, and the 'tilt' appearing slopes of some of the 'jointing' type break-down passing towards a 'knobby' terrain, steep repeating upward sloped rim concentric repeats, and much more, are all a challenge in each aspect of the long story.
Has anyone been using Wolfram Alpha in the browsers to look at the varied slopes by forces applied? It is an educational teaching tool for the self, and a possible source of graphic image details for use on blogs.
Perhaps these 2 repeat links will be active.

John Henry Dough

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Reply: 47

PostPosted: December 8, 2011 12:48 PM 

I never had any trouble with any of the links.

It is good to see the Russians actively involved.

A long long waiting time until MSL Touchdown.

Godspeed Curiosity

Kevin Author Profile Page

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Reply: 48

PostPosted: December 14, 2011 5:12 AM 

Landing times and dates:

Aug 5th 1000 PT
Aug 6th 0500 GMT

An early rise for us here in the UK

Kevin Author Profile Page

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Reply: 49

PostPosted: December 14, 2011 9:34 AM 

Curiosity get's to work, now already 31.9 million miles away from Earth.


Kevin Author Profile Page

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Reply: 50

PostPosted: December 15, 2011 4:38 AM 

The more CME's that hit Curiosity the better!

Dana Johnson

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Reply: 51

PostPosted: December 19, 2011 5:42 PM 

As many of you are using the recent released JMARS system access with new images added this year, and as the MSL Curiosity plan is to find further evidence of water effects on Mars, I thought to give a link for the software here, for the rest to consider adding these to your desktop, or resources, somewhere during your online study work.
HiRISE is very detailed, but heavy in demand, and, as the online use of the IAS free viewer for online image searching is now closing at the end of the year, it would seem that those using online image panning searches will be needing to use this ASU server access for some of the study of Mars geology and martian terrain.
The JMARS system is great for studying Gale crater while we wait out the MSL/Curiosity mission flight to Mars.
The Dichotomy boundary zone slopes between the western side of the volcanic complexes, and, the Gale crater position on the far west along the Dichotomy change of terrain, carries most of the measurable 'high H2O' content terrain in the non-polar regions of satellite sensing data . If you can find the time to study that aspect of the new landing site selection, it might be worthwhile to discuss the reasons for the high 'H2O % content' estimates along the stretch of terrain.
The newer JMARS 'Moon' and 'Earth' imaging might also be a valuable source for discussions on other topics here on the blog. The current JMARS system allows saving images as JPG and PNG, which may allow for some compensation for the 'end of the year' loss of the online IAS viewer use of HiRISE images. The IAS online viewer is not accessible after new years, 2011.
Viewing the Curiosity parts on the ground will still only be possible using the downloaded HiRISE images, at greater than 1 to 1 size, unfortunately.
This is a link to the aerobraking heat-shield reference for size comparison, as it is nearly half again as large as the Phoenix shield, and almost twice the size of the MER rover shields. The HiRISE images can show the shapes on best detailed images, and I included this item link as our discussion has been touching on the possibility of finding minerals produced by water at this terrain slope boundary, with Gale crater at the far west margin of the high water content, and the heat shield as an item to be scorched and given a heat signature source of energy for local alteration of the crater interior, in a way not possible with any other items in the mission-other than the interior of the instruments measuring chemistry composition.
If the shield is not far from the lander, will it be sought for it's effect on the local materials? This was done for the rover in the MER mission, and the composition has been well recorded for the shield contents for both missions. Possibly the rover body will be a better source of air-fall activity study?

The Gale crater location is related to the Valles Marineris terrain chasm in a detailed way, geologically, but the 'high H2O % content' is a more localized aspect of the whole structure of the larger formation, and geology remaining exposure shows the measured 'H2O' is appearing local. It interests me that the highest source of H2O content, is also the highest in FeO and Silica content in the 'high H2O' zone, and it was not the landing selection target. I imagine the multiple historical calamities record is the reasoning, as much as the possibility of local crater ponding or subsidence.

Will MSL give a view of the answers for the varied formation characteristics from that Eastern direction, and answer the basics for the formations formerly engaging it from the West as well?

It appears to me that the sum is a product of massive multiple burials and the influence of local estimated 'H2O content'.

Kevin Author Profile Page

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Reply: 52

PostPosted: January 19, 2012 9:16 AM 

Sojourner, Mars Exploration Rover and Curiosity with a couple of Engineers. Great shot!



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Reply: 53

PostPosted: January 19, 2012 9:38 AM 

Great Shot. Hats off to all the great scientist who do what they do so we can engage in free thought.


John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 54

PostPosted: January 21, 2012 12:14 PM 

Reply #51 Dana.....
Thanks a million for all the good info,Dana.

This helps me tremendously,,,,,knowing that you
guys are out there and what you are about,,Fred,Ben,Winston,MPJ.Kevin,dx,serpens and all the rest.that combined make this place what it is.Yes.


Posts: 1661

Reply: 55

PostPosted: January 21, 2012 5:21 PM 

John Henry Dough>>>

...also to mention Bill and the BIG ELEPHANT-man of men>>>Hortonheardawho!!! I'm sure this elephant has a hump to carry us all. Get well horton, get well.

Gotta like'em all Buddy!!!!not many of us left from 8 years ago. There was an estimate close to 100 at the early times, I remember a list of patriots to this web site. It was glorious. But many have moved on to other things besides Mars.

I have been trying to get FMR back over the past 3 years...he'll come around when Curiosity lands for sure.


John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 56

PostPosted: January 22, 2012 12:05 PM 

dx,,,,,well yes it goes without saying ,,Horton IS this Blog,,,and the final ultimate authority on all things Horticolour.
He has a remarkable talent,that He is kind enough to share with us.A most remarkable,
We struggle along without him but it IS a struggle,,without his input.

Winston does a remarkable job,,,considering he is not an elephant ( joke ) (smile),,,,

,,,isnt it nice that Darwin has came out of
retirement!,,,,,,speaking of long ago,,,remember the 'penalty box',,,,,hahahahahahha,,,Yes there
are too few of us who were here from the start..

what a mess it was back then...

,,,how civilized we have become,and
sometimes even to the point of being 'nice'
to our critics.,,I think the word I am looking for is ''maturity''....something like,'''principles before personalities''??

What think you?

This is all about Mars,,,no more,,no less.
Bill Harris cannot be overlooked I never mentioned him because I just cant remember everyone,,,centsworth is another,,
there are more,,,,reading everything posted here and rarely commenting..b0nafide,,chiming in and it has been a while since Psyche posted.

When Fred mentioned the man behind the curtain,,,He startled me BADLY,,,so I gave him an insane answer,,,that too is a wonderful part of the MRB.

Good luck with FMR,,,I post nearly everyday in the out-of-the-way subject''Space Exploration"" un-fortunatly it does not automatically update the MRB....a job for
the big thing.It is just links to marsdaily and the like.
Life is Good.


Posts: 344

Reply: 57

PostPosted: March 2, 2012 11:22 AM 


Potential problem with the drill.


Posts: 3062

Reply: 58

PostPosted: March 2, 2012 12:01 PM 

Thanks! But very depressing reading.


John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 59

PostPosted: March 2, 2012 2:47 PM 

Hello dx,and All,,,

Ben,,,,I don't think there is too much cause for alarm.

If we can get the wheels down on Mars surface,,
then we will go with what we have,,which is
a brand new rover,,,with possibly some hiccups.

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 60

PostPosted: March 2, 2012 2:49 PM 

oops,,,,I meant to say,,,,Winston

Ben,,,,I don't think there is too much cause for alarm.

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