Curious about Curiosity - Page 12

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MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 221



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 4:48 PM 

Horton dont get me wrong! Actually i am a big fan of your color enhancements but a fixed natural color model is needed too so everybody works from the same basement so to say. Most people don't walk around with false/enhanced color "visors" in the field. Your enhancements comes in handy to pin down the spots to aim the expensive analytic hardware at after basic (and fast) field reconnaissance to get familiar with the place. "External" scientists and amateurs alike need a good entry point. Just my opinion though. Smile

Funny sandwhich like rock assembly in this subframe upper left:

As LWS already pointed out: there seems to be some examples of martian rock varnish around in the big pan - really looking forward how the MSL science team will get the ball rolling over the next weeks! Smile

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 222



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 5:00 PM 

Sorry wrong link above - should have been this:

Regarding color 3D: Mr. James Cameron was upset too as he was planning a 3d movie with Curiosity footage Confused

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 223



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 7:05 PM 

MPJ; Have you seen any images of the MSL color sundial taken on Earth that can be compared side by side with the Gale crater images? I've been looking but can't find any so far.

I have a small problem with the colour. It is that Malin has been able to produce color images from a digital camera analogue that looks exactly like the butterscotch images with red skies that are the official colours of Mars.

Granted that they are the experts but something doesn't seem quite right. Could it be that the algorithms that were used to calibrate the color cameras had an inherent bias towards the reds?

Winston

dx


Posts: 1661

Reply: 224



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 7:19 PM 

h>>>

Nothing better than your 215...please post all you can imagine. I like the middle frame...looks like we have color lockdown!

yt
dx

Slissof


Posts: 18

Reply: 225



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 7:33 PM 

Hi, remember it's always windy on Mars...

The statically attracted or magnetically attracted rock bit moving back and forth on the vertical surface is great!

a1call


Posts: 475

Reply: 226



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 9:17 PM 

I find the movement too perfectly horizontal.
Is it present in all color channels?
Was the camera panned, and images realigned for the movie?
Is there any moveable dust shield in front of the camera that can be moved?

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 227



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 9:22 PM 

Yes, the camera was panned. The spot is in exactly the same location in every frame. This is one of the reasons I will miss 3D color.

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 228



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 9:23 PM 

Perhaps we should look for a few more particles like this one that moves absolutely horizontally on a vertical surface. Mars is indeed strange.

Winston

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 229



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 9:36 PM 

Another rock that looks similar to my reply 210 rock with blue green top surface

Winston

a1call


Posts: 475

Reply: 230



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 10:22 PM 

Thanks for the quick reply Horton.

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 231



PostPosted: August 12, 2012 11:15 PM 

Er, Winston there is no "particle movement" in reply 225.

There is a CCD defect - or lens spot - or some other imperfection that is fixed in the optical system. The camera was moved side to side in the four exposures.

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 232



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 4:09 AM 

Winston, here is an image of the MSL sundial on Earth (but with uncertain illumination):

Looks like no rings were there before mounting the sundial to Curi or this was just a model. Otherwise I would still say the mastcam raw color is quite "natural" albeit a bit pale compared to the above.

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 233



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 7:56 AM 

MPJ, your picture of Curiosity's sundial on Earth made me laugh and laugh.

It is obvious that the photo was taken indoors - under fluorescent light!

If you look carefully ( like with imagej ) you can see a green "tint" in the picture - just like on Mars! Perhaps Curiosity's color cameras were calibrated by a high school dropout in the lab - under fluorescent light.

I produced a color corrected version if you're interested - but if you can't see the tint in the Curiosity image then you will not see the one taken in the office.

One of the things that I have noticed over the years is most people are not aware of just how terrible their color pictures are - especially under artificial light. I routinely correct white balance in any picture I plan on showing.

The picture is named "msl_cal_target-in_shop-to-1" - so I suspect it is the actual sundial - complete with magnets.

The magnets are most likely under the surface - and on Earth there is not a lot of magnetic dust blowing around in offices.

It will be interesting to see just how well this Rube Goldberg idea works out over the years.

Brian


Posts: xxx

Reply: 234



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 8:59 AM 

Regarding this colour thing, I have had a few people ask whether the colours are as we would see them. I've noticed when I open the official pics in my image program the histogram is shifted so that the blue is displaced.

When I do a RGB align I get the following.

Which is true? I suppose it depends on the original calibration of the image?

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 235



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 9:02 AM 

Horton, maybe they used additional black light sources for color calibration as high UV influx is expected on the Martian surface those possibly triggering fluorescence effects on the sundial materials which human eyes/brains would register too as natural colors there.

Regarding the greenish tint - i think i see what you referring to. What if the greenish tint is real under martian UV saturated light too and not a problem of calibration. Smile

Digital image processing and presentation really is a field of science on its own though not my prime interest on Mars nor on Earth to be honest.

My main thrust of appreciating a common accepted fixed color model for Mars from raw color data is to get rid of problems with none Mars expert-peers getting confused by all that putative natural color and false color Mars images which in the end results in them not really paying attention to them in regards to color anomalies and differences et cetera. This is resulting in ever recurring remarks like this: wow more pretty pictures from Mars instead of deeper considerations.

Your remark regarding the Rube Goldberg idea really made me smile too. Very Happy

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 236



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 9:05 AM 

MPJ; Thanks for the image. It looks as if its the best we've got despite the fact that they actually indicate that it was taken indoors and that hort confirms.

I still think that the Curi images from the mastcam seem to be calibrated with an emphasis on a red shift as can be seen in the comparison below.

Obviously the comparison is not in the least an ideal one but it does show that the yellows and indeed the whole image is red shifted.

It is however, the best natural colour representation that I've seen so far.

Winston

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 237



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 9:07 AM 

Brian, your second (processed) image looks strongly like the earth-like white balance Malin is suggesting.

I guess the Martian natural color issue can only be resolved with an actual pair of human eyes on Mars as the ultimative calibration... Rolling Eyes

Brian


Posts: xxx

Reply: 238



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 9:47 AM 

I guess that's true MPJ. Even with the possible red shift though, they still look the most natural so far, as Winston says. Some people have no idea. I was talking to someone tne other day who thought the sky should be BLACK. Shocked

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 239



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 9:50 AM 

My take on the color correction of the "raw" images. I am most bothered by the recurrent pixilation of the sky. I wonder what the images made from original data ( when publicly available ) will look like?

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 240



PostPosted: August 13, 2012 4:12 PM 

We have a simple solution to the problem. let those who think that the colours provided by MSSS are too red shifted use them to create auto white balanced images.

Let those who agree with them use them.

I will, in future, use the auto white balanced images from the Gimp graphics package.

I'll provide a comparison of a representative sampling of the images later.

Winston

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