Worst Panetary Science Mission??

The engineering part of the Phoenix mission was fantastic. Now it would appear the science phase of the mission is turning into a dud. Perhaps they can recover...I hope so. But the mission is half over and they have yet to confirm that the "ice" is water ice. Nothing is happening. I hope the U of A has nothing to do with the Mars Science Laboratory!!! Anyway, Peter Smith seems to have gone underground.

Well, we have to wait and see. The fact that Peter declared that there was water ice visible (or no longer visible )without any real scientific proof, seems to indicate that they do want to share discoveries with the public to claim success. The fact there are so little announcements seems to indicate there is little to announce , and little progress is made.

I do think that the way that the samples are delivered to the instruments (with a scoop) are error prone. It would make more sense (to me) to drill for samples and place the result of the drill into the instrument. Why dumping the result of the scoop in the instrument? Makes no sense to me. But hey, what do I know.

I still don't understand (but maybe somebody can explain) why the white stuff apprears in the left trench (is it water-ice? salt?) and why the ice in the right trench seems to be dirty ice (no white stuff).

Over 30 years ago the Viking landers had sample delivery systems that worked the first time and every time. And no one on the Viking team knew what the soil would be like. I am sure the plans for the Viking Sample Scoop were still available for review by the Phoenix team.

And one more thing. There is a time and place for everything. But at this point I am NOT interested in seeing so called mission "updates" written by high school kids. That would be an interesting aside but is very inappropriate and even bizarre to offer that as our mission info. A little professionalism would be appreciated from the Phoenix high command.

it seems that nobody has been prepared to get there in one piece.

We know that photography works.
We know that digging works.
Wet chemistry lab seemed to be working.
Using just first two in a focused manner, could make the mission a success.

But in most cases the pictures are taken at in appropriate time, the resolution is poor, etc.

eS

indeed. look at this quote from the updates page.

Images from the lander's Robotic Arm Camera showed that the scoop remained empty after two sets of 50 scrapes performed earlier Monday were collected into two piles in the trench informally named "Snow White." These activities were a test of possible techniques for collecting a sample of ice or ice-rich soil for analysis.

Test was not-succesful. Why do they test possible techniques on Mars??? Don't they have tested it on earth?

All of this has underlined for me how we need to stop wasting any more money on these robot missions and get some human beings on Mars.

Within one week they will discover more about Mars than all the robots in the world could do in twenty years.

The robots have generally performed well and have followed instructions. Seems more like bad instructors and weak science that is the issue with the Phoenix mission.

if they are speculating they wouldn't be allowed on that 'other' site....would they?

yt
dx

Don't get me wrong. I have been fascinated by the robot missions, especially the Mars Rovers. But the reality is that they are INCREDIBLY SLOW at producing data.

A human mission could roam far and wide, interpret, follow up leads, zero in quickly on interesting phenomena.

If we are to explore Mars with robots it will take a thousand years.

Let's really get going on the task and prepare for the human mission that is well within our grasp.

A dumb thought...

Hope Phoenix won't "burn" in his own flames!!!
I think they're Frightened by the idea to have a "smoking" (burned out) PHOENIX (:shock lander on a mars pole!
For programmers:
Step 1) Take a decent soil sample inside the TEGA
step 2) Turn the TEGA owens on
Step 3) wait for data... (brrrr!)
Step 4) if result WOULD BE a "roasted Phoenix" then GOTO step 1)
ELSE:
Step 5) end mission

I think that's the reason they're "looping around" the data results for so long!

SAD ...

Positron, do not worry about updates being written by "high school kids". The vast majority of the public has no better way of "understanding". I am quite comfortable with standard NASA jargon, but it is gibberish to MOST people. The more people we can interest, the better. If you want very technical information, it is available in arcane formats if you care to look for it.

Thanks for the putdown. Is this the excuse for lack of any results? Go on the defensive and tell us we cannot understand it anyway. It was obviously a mistake to fund this mission. Lack of proper management and PLANNING is a terrible thing and impossible for you or anyone to defend.

Last week, I wrote to the CNN Science Correspondent and said they might want to check on why the Phoenix status reports had stopped and no results were forthcoming. And about how they seemed not to know how to handle their own hardware. Now I just saw how SUDDENLY they say they have deployed the Conductivity Probe and have decided to try to use the AFM. I am sure I was not the only person to start asking a news organization to ask some hard questions. Even the *** kissers on the "other" site were getting restless and expressing doubts and bewilderment.

I think part of the problem is that we haven't had a good full colour panorama yet. Regardless of your level of scientific literacy and understanding of the science that's taking place, what most people really want to see is a good picture!

It is way premature to criticize the mission. Good science takes time. And those of you who respond with, "a human could do it all in a week" don't seem to recognize the economics. We could send an army of rovers/diggers/swimmers/floaters/orbiters throughout the solar system for the cost of a single manned mission to Mars.

A giant pan was released yesterday!

The problems continue to plague this mission.

http://tech.uk.msn.com/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=8869403

KPM>>>

Thanks for that read.
If anyone is not on the this site for the raw images yet here it is. Compliments of horton [link]

It was down for a few days this past week-end. Why? Just catching up now. One hell of lot of photos taken and really not that much science. And those wind diopter pics are very annoying.

Perhaps the oven should have been the shovel! The micro screens over the 8 ovens has been another annoyance.

pic at the Viking Lander 2 site, remember?
http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/mars/photos/images/vls2.gif

and another showing ice

yt
dx

IF it can confirm organics on Mars it will have turned into the greatest planetary science mission ever.

Bob Clark

What organics can possibly be there
at -30C ?