MECA-OM Images - Page 13

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Posts: 5

Reply: 241

PostPosted: September 6, 2008 2:13 AM 

Yellow stuff might be gypsum or sulfer.

hortons image has a small bundle of um, i guess small wormy strands.

cylinders, and conglomerats in Winstons.

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page

Posts: 3465

Reply: 242

PostPosted: September 6, 2008 1:03 PM 

Some more catching up:

sol 31 OM11 EDF:

There are two versions that show a slight "3D" effect.( one or two pixels ). The Flickr comments discuss the differences.

sol 29 OM2 ( silicone ) visible / UV animation:

The bright UV in the center top is kind'a spooky. You have to look closely to see the effect.

This image has a link to the RGB version of the same cell.

Colorizing the O image with the RGB image highlights the texture and shape of the SOD.

As to what all this stuff is -- that's what you guys are supposed to tell me. I'm just trying to provide the information in as many different ways that I can think of to help you "see" the stuff. If it's rocks - great!: the more rocks and minerals identified the better. Once all the "rocks" are identified we can get down to business.

brian Author Profile Page

Posts: 708

Reply: 243

PostPosted: September 6, 2008 11:18 PM 

Are you going to put a compilation of your images from Phoenix on the market on a CD/DVD as you did in the early days of the MER?

There seem to be a lot of hot pixels and strange flourescent effects in the sol 29 OM2 (silicon) visible/UV animation. Did you subtract the dark image from the UV to get rid of light leakage effects and hot pixels?

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page

Posts: 3465

Reply: 244

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 12:26 AM 

sol 101 EDF montage of OM41 ( weak magnet):

27 images were used to create this montage.

I will post selected portions tomorrow. I have had a busy day on many projects...

Er, brian, I have posted 6000+ images on Flickr.

I have tried to index all the images, so eventually if you want, for example, all the weak magnet OM images you could enter the search term weak magnet OM and retrieve a result like this.

I would think kindly of anyone wishing to help out by adding more interesting tags to the images - and more cross links.

I have offered to permit anyone wishing to help maintain the collection - but so far no one has volunteered.

Er, about the O and U exposures.

The problem is using differences between the JPG images with unknown brightness stretching and clipping.

Typically the interesting information is in the lower bits that are usually clipped. Also, the JPGgies also are worst in darker areas - and make differences problematic.

I don't use the RAC "D" exposures for the same reason.

Look, I'm not claiming any scientific merit for any of this stuff. It's just something interesting to do - and hopefully something interesting for anyone who will take the time to actually look at this stiff.

Can you find the standing rings in the above picture? Do you find anything interesting it it?

rpage Author Profile Page

Posts: 655

Reply: 245

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 3:24 AM 

VERY interesting Horton.
It's getting late, I'll take another gander later. I find it interesting that there are so many grains that are light colored AND magnetic. Most folks that have dragged a magnet through the Earth dust will notice that most of the grains on Earth are dark colored and magnetic (not light colored).

Most light colored magnetic materials on Earth (are light colored and) have mostly ferric/felsic elements (iron or iron-like elements or having a composition of a significant portion of iron).

Other light colored magnetic minerals could be something like calcite or quartz with veins or crystals of magnetite or other magnetic minerals. These small crystals or veins of magnetic material within a grain of selenite/gypsum, anhydrite, calcite, dolomite, quartz, heck even diamonds (or any number of light colored minerals/rocks) might not have immediately visible magnetic grains embedded without closer inspection). Nevertheless, they could be hidden there, causing the grain to be attracted to the magnet.

Magnetite, hematite, Pyrrhotite, ilmenite, can be embedded in many light colored rocks and impart magnetic attraction. Many light colored igneous rocks contain significnat amounts of magnetic material to be attracted to a common magnet.

Some green minerals occurring on Earth that have high concentrations of iron/magnetic elements include: olivene, epidote, garnet, and others

Chlorite (on Earth) is a light colored and sometimes green mineral that occurs with magnetite. Chlorite is a hydrous magnesium-iron-aluminum silicate (Mg,Fe,Al)6 (Si,Al)4 O.10(OH)8.

Likely Mars has new minerals that we have not seen on Earth. Also likely, Mars has minerals similar to what we have seen and described on Earth.

extrasense Author Profile Page

Posts: 1471

Reply: 246

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 9:08 AM 

Here is a stereo of OM sol 101

So, do you see any spores, microbes, etc?


hortonheardawho Author Profile Page

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Reply: 247

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 2:37 PM 

sol 13-100 OM63 comparison:

No, I don't see spores, microbes, etc. because those are found on Earth - and these are images created by microprocesses on Mars.

I expect something completely different on Mars. Most likely just "weird rocks: - like some of the stuff above.

Life? As Marvin, the robot in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says, Life! loathe it or ignore it, you can't like it

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page

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Reply: 248

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 2:41 PM 

sol 101 OM45 - reused?:

rpage Author Profile Page

Posts: 655

Reply: 249

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 10:05 PM 

That green stuff sure looks like olivene grains. Surely Nasa has figured out what it is by now? Most of this magnetic stuff likely comes from igneous activity and meteorites which has been mixed up with sedimentary and evaporite deposits.


Posts: 708

Reply: 250

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 11:22 PM 

Hi rpage,
I'm sure that they already have a real good idea on what makes up the regolith, but I gotta agree with you that the smart money would be on the green particles being Olivene. And I would also punt on a lot of the the yellow/brown being Maghemite.

I also wish there was some way we could show our appreciation to Horton, supported by Winston, for the extraordinary effort they put into providing us with the wealth of processed OM images

dx Author Profile Page

Posts: 1661

Reply: 251

PostPosted: September 7, 2008 11:36 PM 


your 247 and 248 above.

As anyone given any thought that the soil 'itself' may be alive! In other words, with all the unknowns and so-called knowns from our probes would it be possible that the soil, being layered or structured as we see it, has another active development within it. We see soil on the top layer [dead-stuff of Sun and UV beaten material] continually being 'pushed-up' to the surface using the sublimation process [hence-no moisture at the surface] as the vehicle to get it there.

Below that surface layer are several other minute bits of activity cells or layers or balls-chemical or bio??? that develops the whole soil condition within itself using the dirty-ice or frozen water, whatever you want to call it, as the agent required to keep it protected yet active.

Do I make sense here?


Posts: 161

Reply: 252

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 2:21 AM 

All the stuff on the magnetic OM images, Maybe some of the grains are there because things tend to clump or stick toghther, for reasons other than, that they are magnetic.

Another thoght, sulfer, sul;fer crystals are yellow, they are also can be electrified, static wise, my question is, would they be atracted to a magnet, in this charged state.

Wheres the gypsum?

brian Author Profile Page

Posts: 708

Reply: 253

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 4:12 AM 

Mars Express' OMEGA search didn't find any gypsum in the north polar region other than the Olympia Undae dune sea, which is a long way from the Phoenix site. So this would seem to imply that near Phoenix there would only be trace amounts. Possibly the fibrous material seen in some OM is indeed weathered fibrous gypsum.


Posts: 161

Reply: 254

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 11:32 AM 

A simple to read link on Maghemite, wich is a state between hematite and magnatite, is there biology here?

danajohnson Author Profile Page

Posts: 1195

Reply: 255

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 2:39 PM 

The mineralogy of these images will require some serious instrument backup assistance. The oven and a hundred sample capsules for processing should be a goal for the next lander design, obviously. There is some fine work on images to see here after a weeks absence.
Back in the middle of August on this topic, about reply #153, through 164, I presented this image of a 'particle' which resembled a crystal embedded in a thin sheet of some material which was broken leaving a ring of the platy material. The shape was suspiciously crystalline or manufactured, and I hadn't heard news of the breaking of an AFM tip then.
Has there been an announcement of a broken tip on the AFM to anyone's knowledge?
This is an updated version of the particle, which I have now altered in X,Y,Z, axis orientation, and reoriented the lighting towards. The actual object is reduced to a graphic pattern with altered coloration, and a enhancement of the edge margins, with the stable tones(flat, smooth surfaces) reduced in visibility. Due to the back-lighting of the particle, I had to design a 3D surface, and use the underside of an image plane, reversing the lighting to the under-side as well. I'll have to practice some with the imaging techniques, before applying this to the collection of particles.
Here the process shows much regularity in a centered,'straight-on' view with a variety of details appearing well balanced, so as to give the impression of a well manufactured item as I had suspected.
Surely this is a product of a failed attempt with the AFM, or, can something this well assembled be expected as possible?
Altering the lighting and angles made all the difference for this particle. The altered lighting helped to bring the physical edges into 'focus' better than shaded corners.
If they were making two shots with two cameras we could be seeing all these in real 3D.

Before, and after:


The particle has been rotated to show the apex of the triangle at nearly vertical. Easier for visual queuing in that orientation.
Is it a soil particle?

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page

Posts: 3465

Reply: 256

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 4:58 PM 

sol 103 OM45 - again:

I can't find a single feature common to the sol 101 image!

Still strange to my eye, but I am starting to see similar classes of objects. The most obvious are the banded ovals and raspberry-balls.

Er, what's that white, thin, curving filament at the bottom center?

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page

Posts: 3465

Reply: 257

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 5:29 PM 


sol 101 - 103 OM45 comparison:

I looked at the wrong 101 image and too quickly concluded massive changes.

I really should slow down to subsonic.

I spent the morning processing the old OMs and am now done with phase 1 - creating the color images - and am now into the OM sample cell labeling phase. As I mentioned earlier, I hope to make the Flickr images "useful" by tagging the pictures with useful information.

One piece sorely missing is the sampling location. Are there any volunteers to tie sampling locations to OM pictures?

( chirp, chirp, chirp... )

I have also been working on some new "color by Horticolor" Oppy old / new track pictures.

Sorry about the momentary confusion.

LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 258

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 10:24 PM 

Hi Hort

Has any information been released on sampling locations for the OM pictures except the first one of dust released by the landing jets on sol 1?

I hope they are trying to get AFM images of some particles on OM45. There are some interesting colours and spiral and other arrangements of globular appearing particles that really deserve to be observed up very close.



Posts: 708

Reply: 259

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 10:34 PM 

They have (partially) updated their locations matrix for sampling and images. See the links under 'How to use the table' at the bottom of the text here:

LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 260

PostPosted: September 8, 2008 11:16 PM 

Hi Brian

Thanks for the info.

It helps a lot but we really need some information on the source locations from which the samples were taken; the relative depth of the samples; how long they were left to air "dry?"; etc.

I suppose we'll read about it when the papers come out next year.

Dana; I really must apologize for not acknowledging your prompt reply to my query about the software you used. I downloaded the xnview software, had a very quick look at it and intended to do a more thorough look later. I also intended to respond to you after I looked at xnview however, I have not yet done so. Will let you know when I try it out.

Thanks again!


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