Phoenix reveal bone remains

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Lin Liangtai







PostPosted: May 27, 2008 9:59 AM 

Latest Phoenix images reveal many bone remains. The remains are labeled in my first picture in the album "Martian fossils" at http://www.wretch.cc/album/lin440315

Stu Author Profile Page


Posts: 278

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PostPosted: May 27, 2008 1:28 PM 

Oh for pity's sake give it a rest. You cheapen the success of this amazing feat by talking about bones. Reality check: if there were bones on Mars we'd have found them by now, and the planet would be crawling with people, not machines.

Mars is a wonderful enough world without fairy tales.

glennfish


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PostPosted: May 28, 2008 7:24 AM 

Stu,

He made a typo. The operative word is not "bone" it's "bonehead"

IBelieve


Posts: 4

Reply: 3



PostPosted: May 28, 2008 3:52 PM 

So, Stu, we've been all over Mars, huh?

Who made you the King of the Mars Experts?

We have barely BEGUN to explore Mars. We land at a few spots, take a few pictures, and now YOU know there aren't any bones!

Thank YOU so much, Stu! You are a GENIUS.

I will laugh my ASS off when these features turn out to be EXACTLY what you and the other so-called geniuses think they are NOT.

Why don't YOU prove they are not bones, ay, smart guy?

Twisted Evil

Max


Posts: 17

Reply: 4



PostPosted: May 28, 2008 4:00 PM 

Lin Liangtai, William, and IBelieve are all the same person.

IBelieve


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PostPosted: May 28, 2008 7:49 PM 

Does that make you feel smarter, Max?

Because you think SCIENCE will save you, don't you?

Well, guess what - SCIENCE does NOT have all the answers. Open your little brains and see the TRUTH.

There are much more than BONES on Mars.

But the ignorant shall never know any different.

Don Davis


Posts: 17

Reply: 6



PostPosted: May 28, 2008 10:04 PM 

Playing the game of seeing bones, ET artifacts, etc. among the jpeg artifacts of initial Mars surface images may be a nice parlor game but in all fairness it is one that is not limited to Mars images. One might as well look for intriguing looking shapes, as in a Rorschach test, among the resolution limits of photos of anything, including spilled sand or even of static. Why would photos from Mars be a special case if such things are to be seen everywhere else as well?

If one wants to use Mars as a focal point for mystical fantasies then it becomes more of a religious matter than anything one can discuss rationally. The previous poster reveals a contempt for science that is sad. The exploration of Mars is a scientific endeavour, and if science is of no value to some no wonder we see the most marginal aspects of the data used to support the wildest possible scenarios.

Carl Sagan said 'I don't want to believe, I want to KNOW. As we have learned more, Mars has emerged as ever more hostile for life as we know it. Our studies of Mars are instead revealing a geologic wonderland forged by a history of surface conditions somewhere between the Moon and the Earth. The real thing is wonderful on its own terms.

John


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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 2:15 AM 

I'll circle my wagon with Stu's. I may not be the smartest person here, but I DO know what the difference in DRIVEL and what is not. Mr. Sagan launched us out of mythology, into a more mature way of thinking. IBelieve, if you were a true believer, you'd be in a seminary, instead of on the internet. Take a vow of silence, for all of us, PLEASE.

Stu Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 9:33 AM 

I see the Forum's recently-dormant "Lunatic magnet" has been powered up to full strength again. Shame.

You guys really need to put the X-Files dvds back in their cases, step out of your suspiciously-musty smelling bedrooms and join the rest of us in the real world.

No. Seriously. Rolling Eyes

LindaM


Posts: 2

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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 10:11 AM 

Stu, your condescending attitude does nothing to help the situation. You only drive the people you clearly dislike and put down to cling to their views more strongly. But then again, I have noticed how you science types are pretty clueless when it comes to dealing with real people.

While I find IBelieve's attitude to be excessive (and I see he has been censored), there is a germ of a point in his rantings: Why are scientists so stuck on their one view of how things are, especially when it comes to a subject they have no real evidence for such as alien life.

As I remember reading, scientists have been all over the board when it comes to life on Mars. First they thought a whole bunch of intelligent Martians had built canals across the planet. Then when that was found to be false, they said that Mars must at least have plants and maybe even simple animals. Then the spaceships arrived and made Mars look like the moon, so they said that there must be microbes in the ground. Then when those haven't turned up so far, they now say that life must be deep underground.

So if you scientists don't have a clue where life is on Mars or what it looks like, why are you putting down any other ideas? The way you types think, there could be a dinosaur skeleton sitting on top of Phoenix and you would dismiss it as an illusion.

Scientists are clearly not as open minded as they pretend to be. I am sure there has been plenty of evidence for aliens that have been swept under the rug by them, either on purpose or because they can't see past their own little paradigms.

Max


Posts: 17

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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 11:10 AM 

Here is what may seem like an ordinary rock.

But using my stereo viewer with the quantum image enchancement analysis (QIEA) and AC field electromagnetic field radiation set at 50 Hz technique, I have decoded the true image that NASA was hiding from us. It is, in fact, an alien fossil.

Some Implications:

Flibertyjibber

Max Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 11:11 AM 

For maximum resolution and stereo capabilities, click the pictures in the above post.

Stu Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 11:19 AM 

Linda,

You make some very good points about how our views of what martian life might be like has changed, but the ideas being proposed here are, frankly, ridiculous, and I am very - very - confident they're just being posted by a troll to wind up the "science types" here, by someone with far too much time on their hands and a desire to just make trouble and see their name on a popular forum. It might even be someone who has been a member before and was booted off for causing trouble, I wouldn't be surprised by that.

I want to assure you I am open-minded and usually very tolerant of "Out there" ideas, but when someone insists that they've found bone fragments - and then goes on to say they've spotted "fleshy features" - on a planet that we are pretty sure could never have evolved life more advanced than a microbe, then it really is a bit silly, you know?

As for dealing with real people, I give at least a hundred "Outreach" talks every year here in the UK, to groups of kids in schools, to community groups in church halls, and to families in museums and libraries. I've almost 35 years experience of dealing with real people, showing them pictures, translating hard science ideas into more underatstandable concepts and writing popular science articles for my local newsapapers, etc, so I think I'm pretty good at it, to be honest Wink I'm NOT a scientist, I'm just a space enthusiast with a passion for Mars, and it makes me so angry when people ignore the real wonder and beauty of the planet, and don't think it's enough to celebrate what it has to show us, and invent bones and fleshy creatures and dinosaur skulls and god knows what else. It's all a bit pathetic, really.

As for scientists deliberately covering up proof or even hints of alien life, that is simply not true, and would be unbelievably stupid. It's actually much more likely that NASA would FAKE the discovery of life on Mars, or elsewhere, than hide it, if you think about it. Scientists "do science" as their job, and rely on funding to do that job, and to live. NASA is the same; it relies on funding to survive. Now, if they discovered life on Mars, or anywhere, why would they conceal it, when the discovery would lead to a massive increase in their budget overnight? If NASA had found one sliver of bone, one fossil, one flake of lichen, even one tiny bacterium on Mars not only would they have not wanted to keep it secret but, in this modern age of communications monitoring and internet information dissemination they COULDN'T have kept it secret, that's just impossible.

Not convinced? Just ask yourself this: in today's world, when it's impossible to keep secret an affair between movie co-stars or the follies of politicians, would it really, seriously be possible to keep secret the discovery of extraterrestrial life, a discovery that would literally change our understanding of our place in the universe?

Let's celebrate the amazing science Phoenix is going to do and rejoice in the wonder of Mars, without scattering it with chips of ET's bones.

Max


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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 11:23 AM 

how sure are you that LindaM is in not lin liangtai posting by an alternate alias.

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 11:33 AM 

Sigh.

Why all of a sudden all the ad hominem arguments?

Why not:

  • rebut the argument
  • request clarification of the argument
  • provide a counter example
  • ignore the post
  • ask the moderator to delete the post
  • ROFLMAO

A personal observation:

I have always felt it my duty as someone technically oriented to present the data and the arguments from the data as clearly as possible for the intended group.

Since this is a public blog, the intended group is anyone in the universe with access to the web. ( the response lag from Alpha Centuri is a real bummer. Should be seeing some posts on the MER landings in a few years )

The blog is not a personal conversation -- it is a group activity -- so consider the other 99% who are reading the posts -- and address the arguments.

As a practical consideration, it is very tedious to address arguments by analogy ( A is like B; A has propery c; therefore B has property c ), so it is best just to ask "Rxactly how is A like B"? and be done with it.

I will close with the wisdom of my fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Bucho:

all the world is strange -- save thee and me -- and even thou art a little strange

Lighten up people.

LindaM Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: May 29, 2008 12:04 PM 

Stu - I must admit I am pleasantly surprised by your response. I was afraid you would condescend to me just as Max did with his silly rock drawings. I am glad to see you were honest and up front with me, thank you.

I should say while I do not think those images showing bones on Mars are real, I wanted to get my point across that science does not know everything and I often see scientists acting like "high priests" with their ideas, treating anyone who doesn't accept their views or lacks a PhD like them with dismissive contempt. I would like to see more openess to different ideas from people who are sincere in their efforts.

A good example is the idea of continental drift. A century ago one man proposed that the continents were once connected and have spread apart over millions of years. Every other scientist of the time dismissed the guy and his idea as absurd. In the 60's the idea of continents moving about on plates was accepted and now every scientist agrees with it.

Maybe someday alien life will be vindicated the same way, after decades of ridicule and dismissal.

danajohnson0 Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: May 30, 2008 7:27 AM 

An important point here also is that the 'high society' of professionals can do a lifetime of work on the same subjects as those Lin Liangtai is carefully studying, and as a result of the charisma and charm of power, money, buddy systems(gangs), and other assorted 'high society' techniques the more valuable(higher ranked) group will receive a decent social hearing, money, and some acclaim, or forgiveness, depending on the degree of their success in the particular endeavors. After all, only some men(persons) are born as 'equals'. The rest are to toil at hard hand labor for the maintenance of the differential established as the real content of the schism.

The images would require detailed assessment by persons trained for that purpose. We have no one on marsroverblog who is specifically trained for that apparently. Some bio persons are very good at areas of specialty. Perhaps they could help in a critique.

I did find after spending two days part time working on accessing Lin Liangtai's images at 'wretch'(a yahoo owned group social networked collection) that I had been attacked by a virus-like effect on my computer. Anyone headed for the part of the world on a computer be-wary of the weaknesses of your system to attacks. I believe there is no stenography damage potential in that persons images, but my other computer was compromised after a few link surfing attempts at other related sites. Check each image with a scan of the file if you download or view anything. It is a cultural nightmare zone in the region!

We have been fed very distinct images of fossils, bones, assembled creatures, even slightly asymmetrical humanoid skulls by the organization of the US government, in the permanent archives of the MER mission, so why all the whining, squalling, and cry-baby tactics against persons attempting ID of patterns in images? Are you never tiring of the rant against science by others? Let this man perform an organizing effort, and do the assessment of the results as information. If you don't like to see the information, go somewhere else! It's that simple a process to be constructive and scientific.

Keep your conversations to the critique of information, not railing against presumptions about another's personality.

For Lin Liangtai, and readers, here is a link for a planned round trip mission to study the effects of a Mars mission on vertebrate physiology, by those who are on the 'insider' club listing, or the high social order list. If you don't like to read these things, go away, and even stay away if necessary, so this person can work.

One thing that should be noted, is that the planet Mars is mostly a complete mystery as yet, even with the pro's 'floating their boats' over there. We had that same problem in the U.S. a few hundred years past. Whats all the noise about? Is the rant science? Obviously, no.

If NASA is truthful, there are bones and former nervous system material on Mars. So start dealing with it.

The images must be attached to the originals by some linking and credits, in the unaltered form. That is required as a minimum.

There is a great elaborate orderliness to much in the images coming from Mars. That orderliness is not found on Earth in the same degree. That is one of the reasons persons reacting to these claims are out of control with combative, corrupt, whining and squalling.

Mars is not Earth, uh, I think. Can all this be real?

Requires Adobe PDF capabilities, or alternative.
Toads on sample return planned.

And for those still squall and squeal- there were toads on Mars, at least the remains of toads are there. If you don't like that, then take me on as well, but do it very restraintfully. I know the science of the shove.

danajohnson0 Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: May 30, 2008 7:32 AM 

Big word typo, thats steganography, above at entry #16. A word I almost never use. No hidden content I believe in the images. You should check them as you look.
My spell checker has a limited listing. Sorry.

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: June 1, 2008 4:20 PM 

Ah. Lin makes sense now.

Dana, thanks for the virus attack info.

I wondered why I was receiving numerous probes from Chinanet the past week or so.

One IP in particular 222.215.230.49 has been hammering my firewall several times a day.

I will not reply to any more of Lin's post -- and most certainly not look at any of his pictures.

Lin Liangtai Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: June 2, 2008 9:24 AM 

Discovered: another mummified Martian skull with clear facial features

Fig. 1: Labeled are nose, eye sockets, forehead, two osteons, two Haversian canals, etc.
&p=4
Fig. 2: NASA’s original photo
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=1244&cID=27

danajohnson0 Author Profile Page


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PostPosted: June 2, 2008 1:06 PM 

I have given Lin Liangtai my tolerance for a few days additional, and aggressively defended his capacity to attempt to be accurate, and careful, in assessing the details of the first Phoenix photos.
I spent just twenty minutes looking at the images now, today, to assess the effect of the Blog groups hostility gestures. I can see a very poorly ordered association process in analogy of shapes to items clearly not related to each other. I can see a gross overview of all items as bio related, while the probability would be a single chance view of a particular item, in the mixed soil conditions.
The cover picture of the MECA plate is confused as a actual view of a (MER)RATT grind, of a Martian rock sample, but, alas it is a holder plate, I believe. There is a slight language confusion perhaps, but only very slight. It may just be a lack of immersion and orientation to the equipment, a lack of field experience in finding the rare treasures of fossil remains, or, too much resolve to find a single set of items in the obvious geological collection of particulars.
Trying to be polite about this, but my patience is challenged, and I can talk to a madman for a half hour when I take a choiceful stance in that. I will not continue to look at these examples of single lumps and bumps, minor singular occasional circles, and the mistaken mechanical microscope stage with the far more noticeable drop of liquid on it(ignored as not related to biology) spoken of as containing blood vessels in the most inconspicuous spots on the disk, and so on, and on.

I will not pay much attention currently to the items posted as they are repetitious and not true to the science of careful discrimination and self disclaimer which is at the core of scientific thinking.

You are wrong, about much of the the detailed assessments, and I am not even a qualified observer.

Your images are well produced in quality.
You are rather well organized, but your cover image of the MECA plate leads to a soil enlargement.
Your attempts to view blood vessels in all the lumps of material gives me an understanding that you cannot view these items as geological or chemical as well. They are both geological and chemical.

In one rock sample, I agree with you, but only if the item was as large as dinosaur items. That looks much more like a stand of reeds, partly well silicified, or, even a colony of tube worms or coral.
Therefore, are these items the items you claim? You are imprinting upon a vast series of subjects the exclusive content which is based upon loosely associated general shapes which are singular in aspect description for each claim of a detailed identification, excluding the more expected results. Your claims deny the more probable solutions. You have no complex examples of biological systems, therefore just a guess in each. And we stand on the new day of an assessment by a spectrometry and optical microscope type equipment package which will define any remaining bio potential within the equipment tolerances. I wish you a better technique, and a reworking of your judgments.

I have found in this image, some smaller suggestive items at the first footpad photo. 3X the original size here, altered to show shadow details of the particles.
What is you take on several crystals or fossils at various places here, and a strange 'pin bearing' assembly at the upper far right?
It seems to me that we can assess these better together as a team, allowing for geology, and parts from the lander.
.

.
I include this photo to show that disagreement is transient and science is singular, at the human level of perception. Beyond that range, and the world is less certain. I'll try to sharpen this image, but it already beyond proper limits. Biology, or well ordered geology, or, lander parts?

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