Confessions of a banned Unmanned Spaceflight member - Page 5

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Posts: 17

Reply: 81

PostPosted: July 3, 2008 1:51 PM 

yea a little revamp of this forum would be great. posting without fear is a great privilege Cool


Posts: 17

Reply: 82

PostPosted: July 3, 2008 2:00 PM 

doug, you should ban yourself for using wikipedia as a "credible" reference. Here is the full definition:

1. an eccentric, strange, or foolish person.
2. an insane person.

kook : one whose ideas or actions are eccentric, fantastic, or insane : screwball

If you think its appropriate to use the word kooks to describe the people who post here, then you are a mean individual. Thanks very much. I look forward to more of your posts.


LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 83

PostPosted: July 3, 2008 2:14 PM 


I had really forgotten the incredible depths of your arrogance which was almost perfectly demonstrated and captured in your reply #80.

Thanks for reminding me and us!!!

Brian, you stand corrected.



Posts: 17

Reply: 84

PostPosted: July 3, 2008 2:56 PM 

Scroll down the page that doug linked in his reply #80 - there is an interesting paragraph there.

Robert Clark

Posts: 201

Reply: 85

PostPosted: July 3, 2008 7:10 PM 

I've had my issues with the moderation of UMSF, but I'll at least give Doug his props for at least coming on this site to defend his position.
Doug and his co-moderators want to keep UMSF within the realm of mainstream Mars science. As it is now liquid water and the possibility of surface microbial life is still outside the mainstream view. However, I think it is important to note that there have been several reports in important planetary science journals such as Icarus that small amounts of liquid water especially in brine form might exist for short periods on the surface before evaporating or freezing over.
However, the moderatorship on UMSF won't even allow that to be discussed.
With the discovery of the Malin/Edgett gullies there has even been published in the mainstream journals the theory that liquid water might gush to the surface for a short time from subsurface aquifers before eventually evaporating.
I'll allow the moderators of UMSF their own view, but I believe it is too limited if it accepts only those views that are already within the mainstream. It takes only one great discovery to put ideas on the periphery solidly within the mainstream.
I also don't think the Marsroverblog site should be regarded as the domain of "kook" science. I believe the speculation here has been remarkably restrained given the freewheeling nature of the discussion permitted.
You might see discussed here the possibility of "worm-like" forms on here, but given the extraordinary survival capabilities of animals such as tardigrades to extreme environmental conditions I don't believe this is so far out of the realm of possibility.

Bob Clark

Bill Harris

Posts: 72

Reply: 86

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 9:27 AM 

>Hi Max

>Thanks! Bill Harris stars.

>Wonder why Doug could'nt find those posts? >But then "Kooks online" is probably not >derogatory.

>Great search engine though!! We could do >with one like that on this blog.

Still obsessing over that, eh Lyle? Get over it. Truth is, those "culinary" comments was indeed directed at you, and not at the general membership here.

And yes, DougE is an a*retentive nazi.

See, I _am_ an equal-opportunity curmudgeon.


LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 87

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 11:04 AM 

Hi Bill

Thanks! I'm getting quite swollen headed from the realization that you took time from your busy schedule to name a whole blog "Kooks Online" merely because of my posts.

Of course a likely corollary to your comment above is that all the other posters here are not kooks, are OK, and probably would be welcome to join UMSF. I wonder if that's why Stu seems to have abandoned us and posts almost exclusively over there?


Stu Author Profile Page

Posts: 278

Reply: 88

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 12:57 PM 

I haven't abandoned anyone, I'm still here, and I posted on this very thread just a wee bit up the page. I got fed up with things here when Darwin elected himself President, spouting his bile, accusing me of all sorts of things and insulting many others, and got away with it for far too long, so I've been lurking awhile to see how things went, that's all. It looked like things were becoming civilised again, and I was really enjoying the Phoenix discussions... then these attacks started on Doug and UMSF, which have been deeply disappointing and unwarranted and I'm just very sad that the two forums just can't seem to exist peacefully side by side, with people visiting both sites as they wish and without personal attacks. And no doubt I'll get insulted and flamed for saying that, and for sticking up for Doug and UMSF too, but whatever.

Rolling Eyes

LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 89

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 1:37 PM 


I respect you. But please read the exchanges carefully and see if you really consider the "attacks" on Doug unwarranted. I think the shoe is really on the other foot. There was one "attack" on Doug by Max at the start of this current exchange and I read it as perhaps being unwarranted but more so as a reaction by someone who was deeply hurt by what most reasonable persons might consider to have been unwarranted but normal actions by Doug. I don't think max's psychoanalysis of Doug rose to the level of an "unwarranted" attack in such circumstances.

You had a problem with Darwin, Darwin has since been banned. Others had problems with some irascible posters that little has been heard of recently. Many of the posters with somewhat extravagant claims that had no scientific support have toned down their extravagance significantly over the last several months. I've only started posting frequently again since the Phoenix pictures started coming in and my kookiness has been to suggest that there might be free water lurking somewhere, that there are strange surface textures that need to be explained, that the colours of the images I've derived from the raw images do not look right, that perhaps Levin's viking results might be supported by some of the expected results, etc., my usual kookiness.

Look at the posts in this discussion carefully and try to see, as someone that most posters here would consider to be a reasonable and sensible man, that your comments above are not really balanced.

Btw, I just brought in your name above, to try to stimulate a reaction from someone who has posted frequently on both sites. There was absolutely no malice intended.


Stu Author Profile Page

Posts: 278

Reply: 90

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 2:47 PM 

"I don't think max's psychoanalysis of Doug rose to the level of an "unwarranted" attack in such circumstances."

Maybe, maybe not, but when someone posts something like:

"And yes, DougE is an a*retentive nazi."

... then enough is enough.

KPM Author Profile Page

Posts: 836

Reply: 91

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 5:30 PM 


YES thus is UMSF and MRB there too let us all keep our healthy debates and earthlingly like differences forever.

MIR to all.

God bless science and most of all Mars.




LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 92

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 6:09 PM 


Please help me.

I really would like to have explained to me what an "a*retentive" nazi is. Looking back through these posts the first mention of that term was by Bill Harris in which he attributed all the alleged kookiness of this site to me. and then threw in that term as an equal opportunity comment to perhaps show off his great wit, since he could not have been serious about using a possibly derogatory term in describing DougE.

The way your comment above is phrased leaves the impression that Max or even I was the author of that gem. However, I have'nt been able to find anyone prior to Bill Harris making that quote.

So, are you saying that the level of the discussion on both sides leaves a lot to be desired? Or are you obfuscating the issue so that it is unclear where you are actually sitting? or are you actually saying that Bill Harris was wrong for using the term and also that Max's original psychoanalysis of Doug might or might not have been an unwarranted attack? Note that Max responded to what he considered an unwarranted action by Doug.

In any case I would like to get an explanation of the term an "a*retentive nazi". I know what a nazi is but an a*retentive one is a new term for me.


LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 93

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 6:14 PM 

Hi Stu

I just did what I should have done before asking you to define the term in Bill Harris' post. I googled it and it is truly a nasty term. Don't bother to explain.



Posts: 17

Reply: 94

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 6:16 PM 

well, I just wanna put the face behind the man of terror:

yep thats him.

note that doug does not have any background or degrees in science. Yet he intimidates and makes decisions regarding what topic is kooky and which isnt. On the other hand, he still runs a popular forum.

In any case, I believe marsroverblog would be a lot more popular if the layout was upgraded.


Bill Harris

Posts: 72

Reply: 95

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 7:42 PM 

Ouch, Winston, slashed to the bone. I'd better yield to a superior intellect... Rolling Eyes


LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 96

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 8:39 PM 


You're welcome



Posts: 2

Reply: 97

PostPosted: July 5, 2008 11:53 PM 

retentive : someone you quotes the dictionary.

Martin Gradwell

Posts: 141

Reply: 98

PostPosted: July 6, 2008 12:21 PM 

"a*retentive" is presumably shorthand for "anally retentive". This is a technical term from Freudian psychology, the name coming form a phase which Freud reckoned all children have to go through, when they learn to control their excretory functions.

From Wikipedia: 'Freud theorized that children who experience conflicts during this period of time may develop "anal" personality traits, namely those associated with a child's efforts at excretory control: orderliness, stubbornness, a compulsion for control,[1] as well as a generalized interest in collecting, possessing, and retaining objects.[2] Those whose anal characteristics continue into later life are said to be "anal retentive"'.

"Orderliness, stubbornness, a compulsion for control".

Martin Gradwell

Posts: 141

Reply: 99

PostPosted: July 6, 2008 6:36 PM 

It occurs to me that it may not be obvious what point I was trying to make with that last post. My point is, "a*retentive" may not be the most complimentary description in the world, but it isn't the random insult that it might look like to the uninitiated. It's an abbreviation of a technical term which has a specific meaning, relevant in the circumstances. The term "nazi" has more potential to cause offence, but given the references to the "soup nazi" that have been bandied about in the "Phoenix on Mars" thread, I would guess that this is just another reference to what is considered to be excessive and arbitrary regimentation on Doug's part, rather than a claim that Doug is a member of the National Socialist Worker's Party.

LWS Author Profile Page

Posts: 3062

Reply: 100

PostPosted: July 6, 2008 9:37 PM 

Hi Martin

I think those of us following the thread would have got your reply #98 point the first time. What I'm not so sure of (if any of the regular MarsRoverBlog posters are following this exchange) is their views on Doug, coming on this blog, and confirming very matter of factly that yes, you all are inferiors and many of you are kooks and that's how we all think of you (except of course horton) on the supreme Mars blog in the universe. in the gist, if not in those exact terms.

It struck me as effrontery, bold-facedness and arrogance, but it seems that I may be the only one who feels that way.

I think that there should be something that our blog moderator could do about it if he and any others felt so inclined and had any sense of outrage but it seems that we, Mark and the moderator, have abjectly accepted our status as defined by the lords over at UMSF.


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