Confessions of a banned Unmanned Spaceflight member - Page 4

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Martin Gradwell


Posts: 141

Reply: 61



PostPosted: January 23, 2008 9:01 PM 

Isn't it just? Smile

max


Posts: 1

Reply: 62



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 2:30 PM 

Well i registered at UMSF and was banned the very same day, after making 3 posts. The reason was my opposing views on the russian program to send chimps into space. everyone there always has to agree with everything, and they were outright bashing the very though of the idea, calling the scientists alcoholics etc etc.

Basically, if u were to psychologically analyze Doug, it would be very clear that he has no control over his real life, and has to resort to making a community behind a computer monitor in order to start bossing people around to satisfy his personal needs.

People like that disgust me.

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page


Posts: 3465

Reply: 63



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 4:01 PM 

max, welcome home.

I occasionally post one of my creations to UmSF -- but without comment other than technical specifications.

A few months ago I was warned for speculating that a picture might imply something that had already been observed at Meridiani and should be followed up! ( possible frost.)

I followed up with my own observational proof that the suggestion was wrong in the particular picture. But nevertheless I was warned that my activities on UMSF were under discussion by the senior members!

That's not science - that's anti-science.

Proposing testable hypothesis and testing them is the core of scientific reasoning -- which has nothing to do with consulting a committee -- or the scripture of your favorite revered Scientist for truthiness.

Ah well.

If I want an audience for a picture that I think is of general interest, then I post it to UMSF.

The results are usually dramatic. For example, the recent "Changes to Ice Under Lander" animations already have over a 1000 hits -- most redirected from UMSF.

The Wonderland panorama I just posted to UMSF already has 150 views - 160 views -170 and climbing -- which is more than 10 times the views of a similar panorama ( but to my mind far more interesting ) that I posted only to this board 4 hours ago.

But if I want the creative juices stirred, I come here and am not deterred from making the "wildest" observations.

As long as there is no shouting and hair pulling and name calling I'll consider any idea -- no matter how "crazy". Mind you, some I immediately classify as "no data available to test hypothesis" and move on - but I STILL consider the idea.

Thanks a million Mark for a warm and cozy place for a true Marsaholic to hang out.

( Next round is on me!)

Stu Author Profile Page


Posts: 278

Reply: 64



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 5:58 PM 

I'm not going to comment on the remarks about Doug, as I think there are many people here who know him and don't need me to leap to his defence, and I will not be drawn into a site war or any flaming, slagging off or name-calling here, but I do feel I need to make it very clear to you, and everyone here, that your work is very well respected over at UMSF Hort, and everyone looks forward to seeing your images.

Doug Ellison


Posts: 11

Reply: 65



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 7:12 PM 

Just for the record - Max has not been banned. His account has been suspended for 7 days.

Why?

Because he made a post we didn't like. We deleted it, sent a private message explaining why it was deleted, suggested that this place would be a more appropriate platform for that discussion and also made it very very clear that if he posted in the same way again, his account would be suspended.

He posted in the same way again. Thus, as promised, his account was suspended for a period of 7 days.

UMSF is for a certain group of people to discuss certain things in a certain way. This place is for a different group of people to discuss things in a different way. There is a small overlap (essentially called Horton Smile ) Neither is right or wrong. One serves one purpose, the other serves a different purpose. I am very glad this place exists as somewhere I can point people toward when they want to discuss things outside of the scope of UMSF.

Doug

Ben


Posts: 2270

Reply: 66



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 7:41 PM 

Where is Doug's response ???

hortonheardawho Author Profile Page


Posts: 3465

Reply: 67



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 8:22 PM 

Doug, it is so good to hear that you still occasionally lurk here!

Yes, two sites, ( click. ) two sites ( click! ) - with one common goal:

Fresher breath?

NO, a breadth of knowledge beyond the mundane and a fresher understanding of our place in the cosmos.

We ALL who take the time to visit these sites have that goal in common.

If I am looking for something technical about the unmanned space program and I can't "google" it, then I try UMSF.

And if I am looking for an improbable but possible explanation for an odd observation, then I come here.

I am usually just on the bourder of chaos admiring all the pretty sights on the event horizon -- so mostly I come here.

The two sites are complementary ways of understanding.

And as all of you should know from the uncertainty principle complimentary operators that do not commute are a fundamental part of "that which is".

Once you understand that you can't possibly comprehend quantum reality, then it is all much easier to know nothing and just be whereever you are - doing whatever you're doing.

Reality! What a concept!

Did I ever mention that my first degree was Physics? One year in grad school studying what was then called "elementary particle physics" was enough to convince me that being is weird beyond understanding. And it has only gotten weirder since then.

LWS Author Profile Page


Posts: 3062

Reply: 68



PostPosted: July 2, 2008 11:43 PM 

I've never tried to post to UMSF for the simple reason that I have absolutely no doubt that I would be banned almost forthwith. However, I lurk there quite often looking for the many gems that are often posted there by experts. I think that a forum like UMSF is essential, just like Marsroverblog, to satisfy the wide range of interests that us Marsaholics have.

I wonder if Emily Lackadawalla was cautioned about her latest piece which delicately hinted at something strange in the apparently growing deposits of whatever on one of Phoenix's landing legs. You might note that not one poster at UMSF referred to that interesting phenomenon. Wonder if Doug's strict rules had anything to do with that.

However, judging by the little snippets of info that have come from Phoenix so far, and if TEGA is actually able to analyse some full unsublimed samples, and if they release the OM images and do the Atomic Force super Microscope images, I would not be surprised if Doug will have to relent on his strict rules on discussing some of the topics that are now verboten such as possibility of organics and, heaven forfend, current water and life on Mars.

Winston

mann


Posts: 161

Reply: 69



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 12:49 AM 


Stuff like, check out this dried mud puddle doug.

http://mann.smugmug.com/gallery/100790_dc97B#324472306_5gvQs-A-LB

brian Author Profile Page


Posts: 708

Reply: 70



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 3:44 AM 

Funny. Doug does not permit any derogatory comments towards this forum. Yet posters on this forum have felt no constraints with regard to making derogatory comments with respect to USF and Doug personally. The forums serve different purposes but this one has a sometimes unhealthy tolerance of links and comment.

LWS Author Profile Page


Posts: 3062

Reply: 71



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 6:55 AM 

Brian

Check out Bill Harris' derogatory comments re. this forum on UMSF to see that your statement above is not totally correct. Perhaps you should have said that He does not NOW permit derogatory statements toward this forum.

It is true that the nature of this forum has allowed some derogatory statements re. individuals to be posted but these are by individuals who appear prone to such postings .

have to run, might continue this post later.

winston

LWS Author Profile Page


Posts: 3062

Reply: 72



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 7:20 AM 

mann

re. your #69 image. Great image.

Winston

Doug Ellison


Posts: 11

Reply: 73



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 8:25 AM 

LWS - I don't want to start an 'us vs them' debate - but could you provide links to Bill's derogatory posts. I've tried searching, but can't find anything. If such posts are there, I'd want to be sure I'd read them. I've tried to read every post made, but with the odd vacation etc etc, you can't always catch everything. If there's something I've missed, please let me know.

And no, I have not (nor would I) caution Emily She's one of my co-admins and thus has as much control over the forum as I do...she'd just ban me Very Happy If you have questions about how UMSF gets run, or why something has or has not been culled, by all means drop me an email and I'll try to answer any questions you may have. I'd rather that than missplaced speculation.

LWS Author Profile Page


Posts: 3062

Reply: 74



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 10:04 AM 

Hi Doug

I really don't want to belabour the issue. It might have been more an issue of ultra-sensitivity on my part than serious derogatory statements. But he did refer to the posters here (and I read that as all of us) as Kooks or cooks or culinary or something of that nature. I'll try to find the references although It is quite possible that they were removed, It was well over one year ago. I only brought it up as Brian had indicated that you do not permit derogatory statements towards this forum, which may be true now but, in my view, was'nt then.

Re. the Emily Lakadawalla reference, that comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I think that you have your posters well regimented in general and they know the limits of the envelope within which they post, thus nothing was posted on the splat phenomenon following emily's provocative blog statement even though there are significant, valid, non-extreme scientific comments that could point to an expanded knowledge of how ice and water operate near the poles on Mars. Such a discussion would have been quite valuable and with the expertise that posts on UMSF would have added considerably to the discussion on the matter which took place here.

I don't have any questions about how UMSF gets run. I think I understand its philosophy as a Senior Scientist Common Room and Club that strictly excludes the hoi polloi. But I think that sometimes you throw out the baby with the bathwater in excluding certain topics and that this may well come back to haunt you in the near future.

Winston

Max


Posts: 3

Reply: 75



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 10:04 AM 

Doug, all your posts and private messages aimed at me were very rude, the posts you make here are not representative of your true nature.

Please read the first 3 pages of this thread then lets have a look at your little snippet:

"Because he made a post we didn't like."

The more appropriate phrase is "Because he made a post I didn't like." Also you dismissed the topic of the thread, insulted the Russian space agency, and directly stated that no one on UMSF cares about the topic or will "ever" look at this thread. So I disagreed and was banned for 7 days.

"We deleted it, sent a private message explaining why it was deleted,"

You deleted it, and sent a warning telling me that posting in a topic relating to "Manned Spaceflight" in the "Manned Spaceflight" Section of the website is not the appropriate place to post my ideas. If you make a section entitled as such, it doesnt matter what the title of the main forum is.

"suggested that this place would be a more appropriate platform for that discussion"

When did this happen?

"and also made it very very clear that if he posted in the same way again, his account would be suspended."

Yes thats right.

"He posted in the same way again."

This was my post:

I believe that the evolutionary trait for exploration is a very important one. It is necessary if we are to survive. Sending monkeys into space is necessary for dose assessment. We have little information regarding carcinogenic and other biological effects resulting from ionizing radiation in outer space. What quality factor should we use? Can we extrapolate upwards using the LNT? If you dont agree with my post, what other method do you propose in order to study carcinogenic effects resulting from very high energy radiation.


Suspended for 7 days.

Max

LWS Author Profile Page


Posts: 3062

Reply: 76



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 10:44 AM 

My last reply went into neverneverland

Hi Doug

I really don't want to belabour the issue. It might have been more an issue of ultra-sensitivity on my part than serious derogatory statements. But he did refer to the posters here (and I read that as all of us) as Kooks or cooks or culinary or something of that nature. I'll try to find the references although It is quite possible that they were removed, It was well over one year ago. I only brought it up as Brian had indicated that you do not permit derogatory statements towards this forum, which may be true now but, in my view, was'nt then.

Re. the Emily Lakadawalla reference, that comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I think that you have your posters well regimented in general and they know the limits of the envelope within which they post, thus nothing was posted on the splat phenomenon following emily's provocative blog statement even though there are significant, valid, non-extreme scientific comments that could point to an expanded knowledge of how ice and water operate near the poles on Mars. Such a discussion would have been quite valuable and with the expertise that posts on UMSF would have added considerably to the discussion on the matter which took place here.

I don't have any questions about how UMSF gets run. I think I understand its philosophy as a Senior Scientist Common Room and Club that strictly excludes the hoi polloi. But I think that sometimes you throw out the baby with the bathwater in excluding certain topics and that this may well come back to haunt you in the near future.

Winston

Max


Posts: 3

Reply: 77



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 12:08 PM 

this forum is referred to as "kooks online" by the posters at UMSF.

simply search "kooks" here http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=Search

Max


Posts: 17

Reply: 78



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 12:24 PM 

some posts at UMSF before they get deleted:

"Over at the culinary forum down the hall ( "Kooks Online" "

"Whew, they must be having a field day over at Kooks Online. Nearby I spotted a feature looking like a thin rod."

"I noticed the last incursion and it took a lot of will power to not don my Jacques Flambeau mask and torch him. Kooks are best ignored and sent back to that Culinary forum."

"The kooks probably already have there sites and beliefs. It seems more likely to me that most people typing such terms into google are doing so to find out about the subject and are only potential kooks. If they head off to the kook site which tops the search then a new kook may be born; much better that they get directed here where we can persuade them otherwise. smile.gif"

LWS Author Profile Page


Posts: 3062

Reply: 79



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 12:35 PM 

Hi Max

Thanks! Bill Harris stars.

Wonder why Doug could'nt find those posts? But then "Kooks online" is probably not derogatory.

Great search engine though!! We could do with one like that on this blog.

Winston

Doug Ellison


Posts: 11

Reply: 80



PostPosted: July 3, 2008 1:35 PM 

I hunted thru Bills posts with the words marsroverblog, mark, carey and yellow - but not kook. After all - it's not that offensive, and it's not entirely inaccurate

http://dictionary.die.net/kook
"someone regarded as eccentric or crazy and standing out from a group"

From the UMSF perspective, this place stands out and is a little eccentric.

I think it is fair to say that a thread like this, wouldn't happen over there, but Brian's claim isn't entirely true.

The forum software ( invision ) is very powerful. It has issues, but it does the job very well. You can, however, search any specific website using google. If you use the search phrase you're after - and the suffix it with site:the url - it will hunt for stuff on that site.

i.e. - google phoenix leg site:marsroverblog.com

It's not perfect, but it's fairly useful.

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