The first step - Earth to Mars

We spend billions on the exploration of Mars, but in the process, we're undoing our own biology.

The production of calcium carbonate in our oceans is one of the few mitigating factors in man-made CO2 emissions. Without this careful balancing act on the part of our oceans, are we not doomed to runaway greenhouse, or worse, a whiplash or slingshot into a frozen world like Mars?

The higher man goes, the lower his environment sinks. If the earth has a spirit of retribution, shall the pendulum NOT swing back like a guillotine?

["Caribbean coral suffers record die-off"] 3/31/06 - CNN

We've got a jillion satellites up in the sky, AND all OF THEM telling us the same desperate thing, but are the folks in power doing anything about it?

WHY BOTHER SENDING MAN TO MARS OR VENUS, IT'LL BE JUST LIKE HERE SOMEDAY?

Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy. - Carl Sagan

So sayeth the man who made pot his holy grail.

So sayeth the man who opened the eyes of millions of people - a whole generation - to the true nature and wonder of the universe; who contributed to the exploration of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn; who first realised the awful consequences of a "nuclear winter"; who inspired countless people to become scientists to better the future and destiny of mankind; who wrote "Contact", the book, which later became a film, that portrayed accurately, for the first time, the drama and wonder of discovering a signal from an alien intelligence.

He smoked pot. Worse things in life - like spending hours posting ridiculous and irrelevent pictures on internet forums that are helping thousands of people across the world follow one of the most fascinating adventures of all time - the treks of the Spirit and Opportunity rovers, 21st century Lewis and Clarks, across an arid, unforgiving alien landscape, and spouting self-righteous Charlton-Hestonesque religi-babble that would be too embarrassing to use in a Conan film.

If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate....Try science. [Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World]

Stu>>

Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks for the prose. Its spot on.

...and if I can add this thought in MHO,..."we have turned and entered an enlightened phase through discovery, which proves we have shed the religious shroud for the disciplines of the scientific mind". [dx].

yt
dx

While there is no denying our planet is experiencing a warming trend, there is no firm evidence I've seen that man-made emmissions are the root cause. Sure, there are theories, but theories are nothing more than educated opinions. And as I'm sure you all have seen countless times regarding any given subject, experts are not only frequently wrong, they rarely all agree with each other.

I'm all for reducing emissions for health reasons, but I find those scientists who advocate reducing emissions to "reverse" the trend of Global Warming to be arrogant and misleading. In the past, major volcanic events and large meteor impacts on Earth have routinely changed our climate to a magnitude that makes all of our our man-made emmissions look like a tiny cosmic blip by comparison. Yet, despite those many cataclysms and resulting mass extinctions of both flora and fauna, the Earth manages to find climatological equalibrium again. The fact is, on a cosmic scale, we don't really matter as much as we'd like to believe.

The bottom line? There's no proof that Earth will ever become like Mars or Venus because of anything man can do, and therefore, no scientist worth his/her salt should be claiming it will.

R. Maheras>>

In my mind you make perfect sence for the disposition of the world...in other words, they match my thoughts also.

Since the birth of the wordly 'social nanny' and their belief of anything problematic to the earth along with their wish to preserve the agronomist society to rise out of the delusionary ashes of science, thus is born the idiot of the future. The maker of past-tense!

Who are these creatures that walk amongst us thinking scientific humans. Why, they are the real problem of the earth, itself and its patrons. They constitute their jargon from Fed monies to proclaim the end of the world at every turn of their head, and all should listen to them...maybe they have been there before...(tic)..in their own mind.

I am a firm believer that the world can take care of itself and those who habitat its surface, if it wants to. Eons would have to pass before the slightest effect from 'cause and effect' would be noted and or recorded as Armageddon.

Let them pass you by.

yt
dx

If a man sets fire to his own house, we call it arson, and throw him in jail. If mankind sets fire to the earth, we call it, "impossible."

Forget my words, which I gave to you last fall. Listen to the Maker of Heaven and earth, who warned you of this very predicament, in almost identical language.

"You defiled your sanctuaries with your many sins and your dishonest trade. So I brought fire from within you, and it consumed you. I let it burn you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching." Eze. 28:18

As sure as the sun rises in the east, this will come to pass in your lifetimes. The guillotine which I have shown you, is the rebellion which will be unleashed. A rebellion, which will be led by someone, you boys will like. Someone who will make all your "impossibles," come alive.

You see, the religious people -- most of them -- really think this planet is an experiment. That's what their beliefs come down to. Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen's wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can't say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that. Why can't the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence. If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a shithead, maybe she would've listened to him more.

If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants?

Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition.

Sol Hadden in Carl Sagan's Contact

So, the defence of the humans in concert here is to advocate a stringent seizing of the reigns of "GOD", and the careful and thoughtful execution of a Planned Pattern which will provide a 'human' touch to the path of the obvious self-induced buffoonery and corrupt practices we admit to living as a 'mob' or social assemblage, therefore?

As I read the combined statements you are generally advocating a harness attached to science information which would lead us to a better or more correct path? Is the general avocation a less restrained path than that harnessed path, with the Earth and the 'human 'mob' given a free reign to travel any path of dalliance and impulse? We are known as human 'idiots' when organized, generally, spoken in statistical numbers as 'mobs' and groups. We take a path not much finer that cockroaches, frankly. Statistically our intelligence shows as a 'light' only very dimly on our chosen path throughout history, and we are very slow and inefficient as societies over historic time.

I believe the person is reacting to this problem as a complaint, and I do believe that we are showing him as correct, in the balance of social display.

A planned reaction should be occurring, but social impulse and science are in very obvious conflict

A few deadly implants in the agencies of information and the corrected path can be denied to us and eliminated. A few key figures as individuals can alter the entire potential social intelligence.

While the Earth may be statistically self determining over long periods of time, our contributions to the basic content of the environment is shown to be arising as a challenging competitor in the short term, and the correction which might occur may be very slow. On Mars no atmospheric competition to the dominance of CO2 can be produced by any means, either human or natural. If the natural sources and balance on Earth have been measured as varying over long periods of time, it indicated the probable stability not of a reversible condition, but a stable non-reversible condition, and only a very slow correction along the path in human historic time at best.

In your own quoted terms in combination, the weaknesses of your own suggestion that humans and the Earth can be 'smart' and travel the correct path by combined choice and automated natural homeostasis:

,..."we have turned and entered an enlightened phase"....
...."there is no denying our planet is experiencing a warming trend, there is no firm evidence I've seen that man-made emissions are the root cause.....
...."there are theories, but theories are nothing more than educated opinions. And as I'm sure you all have seen countless times regarding any given subject, experts are not only frequently wrong, they rarely.... agree with each other."....
...."I find those scientists who advocate reducing emissions to "reverse" the trend of Global Warming to be arrogant and misleading."....
...."despite those many cataclysms and resulting mass extinctions of both flora and fauna, the Earth manages to find climatological equilibrium again."....
....on a cosmic scale, we don't really matter as much as we'd like to believe."....
...."I am a firm believer that the world can take care of itself and those who habitat its surface, if it wants to. Eons would have to pass before the slightest effect from 'cause and effect' would be noted and or recorded as Armageddon."....
...."I'm all for reducing emissions for health reasons,"....
...."All this intervention speaks of incompetence."....
...."God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition.
"....
....If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants?"....
...."Who are these creatures that walk amongst us thinking scientific humans. Why, they are the real problem of the earth,"....
....to rise out of the delusionary ashes of science, thus is born the idiot of the future. The maker of past-tense!....
...."I am a firm believer "....
...."Let them pass you by."....
.

.

[http:]//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image allas_South_Dakota_1936.jpg
.

Dana,

Not sure if that reply was to me, and what I'd written above it, because I couldn't follow what you were saying, sorry... but I should state here that I am a firm believer ibn "global warming", in that it is definitely occurring and that we should act together to do something about it. That's just common sense - you see a problem you can fix, or at least reduce the impact of, you do something about it. What I have trouble with is this endless, yawn-inducing, tiresomely trendy religious diatribe against science and scientists in general, and NASA in particular, condemning them for condemning's sake. It's just such a waste of time. They're easy targets, admittedly, but they're just people! They're not superheroes! The politicians are the ones who should be called to account for showing poor leadership and basically having no balls to make the tough calls. If it wasn't for NASA, and the space program, there'd have BEEN no discovery of global warming, no mapping and monitoring of the ozone hole, nothing like that. No priests or clerics discovered those things, beakers sitting in labs did, staring at screens and crunching numbers.

Cards on the table: I don't believe in God. But I'm respectful of people who do, I respect their beliefs, if they're genuine and a comfort to them, and I admire them for their dedication and dignity, as I've said elsewhere on this forum. What I can't stand is when zealots start plastering very poor fantasy novel covers and rock album cover art all over the place, declaring scientists are wicked and we, the followers of the space program, are wicked too, or foolish, or both. It's just such a tragic waste of time and energy.

Earth's getting hotter. Fact. We're polluting the atmosphere. Fact. The two are linked? Probably, almost certainly, but I'm no expert. Still, it makes sense to me, and I worry about it and educate kids about it when I give my talks in schools. But having one problem doesn't mean we should turn our backs on other challenges, other futures, other destinies. We're not exploring Mars because we don't care about Earth; we're exploring it because it's in our nature to explore, it's encoded in our DNA, along with the codes for fighting, breeding, thinking and fleeing. As soon as we're born we start looking for things to climb so we can look further than we can from the ground, because we Need To See Beyond. We start off climbing stairs as kids, then trees when a few years older. Older still, we climb hills, then maybe mountains, and eventually buy seats in airplanes so we can see further still. We love to climb to the tops of tall towers and buildings so we can see further; we built castles on hills, restaurants and penthouses on the top floors of skyscrapers because they let us See Further. We - as a race - sent men into space, then to the Moon, to allow us all, by proxy, to See Further. And we'll go to Mars because that will allow us all to See Further Still, and from the ruddy, boulder-covered plains of Mars we'll stare up at Jupiter, blazing in the sky like a lantern, and feel it tugging at us, pulling at us from across a billion miles, and we'll yearn to leave Mars and move onwards, to stand on the icy surfaces of Ganymede, Callisto and Europa, and the sulphurous, Hades-like surface of Io, and gaze at Saturn, to dream of travelling there and standing on the surface of Enceladus to look for Uranus in the sky...

That's what we do. It's what we are. Explorers, Dreamers and Travellers. One day, our far descendants will stand on the surface of a beyond-alien world and watch the Milky Way galaxy rising up from behind their mountains, a glorious lens of frothy starlight, and they'll envy US for starting the journey that took them there all those millennia ago. But then they'll turn their back on the Milky Way and turn their faces towards the cluster of galaxies shining overhead, and know where they have to go next...

And it won't end, can't you see that? Can't you feel the glory, the nobility of that? Can't you see that every inch Spirit drags herself forwards is an inch closer to fulfilling that destiny?

And I believe we'll do it ourselves, with wrenches, blueprints, computers and sweat. No divine intervention needed.

Unfortunately, I was not functional during the early years of flight, at the turn of the past century. We missed the public attitude and the social viewpoint in the transition period. We also cannot return to the historic (probable) one time only circumstance of a sea of fuel resources which fueled the century, both on the ground and in the air. Without a solid future we have to travel multiple paths simultaneously to accommodate the uncertainties in the development of new types of technology which will probably be required to replace the current reliance upon cheap easy fuels.
If it is not possible to maintain the economics of current human safety, we will be punished by those who suffer, and by those who choice to join with them. Our choices which border on the absurd in the pretentiousness of our habits among the well off, will not be judged favorably as we enter a declining economic stature as a group of well off nations.
It is appropriate to take the matter as of equal importance to the fear of planet-wide alterations which may augment the suffering we are establishing by 'tabling' and 'bordering' our favorable economic status. This is serious business, and the poster here is referring to only one aspect of a vast world-wide developing problem. I support concerns for our mutual future, and I do not support the arrogance of the frenzied 'spenders' who are lost in the daily routines.

One subject is at the base of our conversation here.

Humans think as a result of their impulses. They do not think and produce their impulses(beliefs). One of the most dangerous conditions of humans is that they do not occur nor associate by choice- they are here and they are associating as they are here.

If you notice my statements above, we are not producing our reality by choice. We are consumers of a reality which is a 'gift'.

I can accept the concerns of the poster as irritating to my comforts and my conveniences, and therefore possibly rather valuable as a subject.

We will undoubtedly achieve solar system presence and understanding. I also worry that it cost hundreds of millions of lives and the loss of the comforts of those and other persons. We have done much good with the technology programs recently, but that can be turned as a sword against the larger population with a simple change of public or a governments 'mood'. Let's see that the self corrections that are needed in the worlds attitudes is taken as seriously as any technical value we seek.
Will the practical value of science bring as much comfort to others as we think we should have personally?
The poster is concerned about a non-reversible path to the altered stability of nature(named differently)- I worry as much about the human effect, long and short term, on the poor and the denied.

My primary point is that bad judgement is fairly common among humans.

Very thoughtful and beautiful comments, thank you, both Stu and Dana.

You're both right.

I don't believe in God to force others into my belief system as their solution. I present a powerful truth, written in part by men who were different. Men who are the product of a God, who very openly practiced genetic planning. Being the Maker, that gives Him the right. But have you ever asked yourself the question, what was He genetically planning, around? What traits was he looking to save and why?

Having said this, is there a way to tap into this source to save our planet? I thought at first that we might find our answers on Mars, but suddenly I realized that my government would seek to weaponize whatever secrets we found there.

When I presented [here] my simple correlation between what happened at Tunguska and Orville Wright's first public flight following his signing a contract with the U.S. War Department, I brought to the table of science, something just as valuable as any satellites or ice cores.

I have no desire to go back to prehistoric living, but we face an adversary that somehow lives and breathes within us or strangely beside us, much like a parasite does. I don't completely understand it, but something changed in the past 100 years, that was very much like a bomb going off in our heads. Suddenly, for reasons that cannot be fully or easily explained by mere chance, environment, or genes, our technological ability exploded. Worse, the explosion in our technology far exceeds our ability to control it, especially for such a vast population. This makes its true orgins even more suspect. In other words, could there be another reason we have strangley moved ahead of our own biology?

Here is wisdom, for those with ears to hear: The reason the "days of Noah" will be repeated, as predicted by [Jesus,] is because in essence," before the flood ... something terrible happened to mankind, something that for reasons not fully explained, was predicted would reoccur.

[GENESIS 6:1] Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. [Broader Theory of who and what these "sons of God" are]

After this, mankind became so abhorrent to God that he destroyed everyone except Noah and his family. Geneticists will bear this bottleneck of sorts out, although they probably have another disaster explanation as a theory, and would argue that the "neck" amounted to perhaps only "thousands" of human beings.

Now if you choose not to believe this story, that's fine, but imagine the possibility that this INVASION type of event reoccurred at roughly the beginning of our current technological explosion?

If indeed the earth is a garden, of sorts, as Jesus explained, then it makes sense that weeds(aliens, a.k.a. demons) might occasionally invade that garden and need to be pulled out, every so often.

In the summer of 1908 two events happened at almost exactly the same time in history.

The first event, was the unusual fall of a very mysterious object of unexplained origins and makeup, over Siberia. Perhaps the most curious observation I've seen, is how it "split the sky in two." To my knowledge, this is the most unique observation of the event, as objects fall to earth all the time, but they aren't described in these terms. Why the split in appearance? Was it the enormous size, or some other property?

The second, which occurred within thirty days, is Orville Wright's first public flight after signing with the U.S. War Department.

For Star Trek fans, keep in the back of your minds the story of the Vulcan ship, witnessing the first warp signature on the earth. What if instead of a warp signature, they were looking for something else.

Yeah ... What if? and IF ... how do we combat ... THEM?

We have entered a potential unique time in history where we can make decisions in the short term which bring to us in the short and long term results which can produce effects equal to the Tunguska blast and worse. Our ability to override our decisions as groups, even in constructive mutual terms, can be conducted by individuals, and that draws us into a new history where we are entering a direct challenge, person to society, as apparent equals to the concept of God. We are still limited, as the nuclear winter concept and other injuries self induced may be very survivable world-wide, but we are at the core of our science seeking precisely the equalizing influence potential which enhances the effect of single decisions by humans.
The entire enterprise may be the actual destructive potential which serves as the most damaging 'weapon'. Utilization of all our 'one-time' resources may be irreversible within the current century.
A future need for heating worldwide might be more need than we can supply. As a world population we have not given group understanding of this sufficiently to stop our path of increase and our other path of rapid use of the known resources. Our foolishness may be a powerful weapon against us long term over a few centuries, as effective as a direct attack by any group of 'other' types.
Planning for long term contingencies should be built into our worldwide approach to the process of science, and our power as groups should be as wise as we are appearing potentially powerful.
My family were farmers who settled the Oklahoma Land Run homesteads at the turn of the century, the same decades you are referring to, and they failed as the human influence on Oklahoma and nearby states combined with a very slight change in natural weather processes became a disaster over the central US, causing my family to wander to California to find work and safety. They were following the group path, and they fortunate to be able to return to the same locale again later as the Earths weather was altered both by 'natural' changes and by a human attempt to compensate by more wise approach to agriculture land tending techniques. We could be ruined in this small section of the world by a stable slight shift in the basic weather patterns only slightly greater than that turn-of-century disaster. My own families homestead buildings sit as a vacant 'ghost town' even at 2006, and the entire small town is without a single living person a hundred years into the path started at the twentieth century beginning.
We are fortunate to live on a planet which can provide a potential for food for billions of us, but the source of the food and economics is both the possible 'one-time' fuel reserves, and a favorable weather pattern which can change for decades or even fir centuries at a sweep.

A change in weather pattern could ruin entire continents health and economics long term and permanently.
To bring favorable terms into play is not yet even close to our potential as I understand it. We can do harm, but we choose not to become prepared for doing less harm. The process is happening similarly at various agriculture zones, and in regard to water , fuel, and direct influence in biology mediation possibly.
I doubt that weeding damaging influences among us is sufficient for our health and long term survivablity, but it is a necessity as an aspect of the process.

Hey, this has suddenly turned into a civilised conversation... much better than ranting, don't you think?

ראה - I think I'm making more sense now of what your concerns are: that perhaps we've either a) been kept "in galactic quarantine" of some kind by aliens of some kind, or b) "God" (for want of a better word... maybe Gaia would suit your arguments better) has His/Her/Its limits to patience and suffering. Either way, when we get too big for our boots - by wreaking ecological havoc, or taking a technological leap forwards - we face a backlash, and are sent warnings. Am I right?

If that's what you're saying, then surely we would have been pelted with comets or asteroids, or assailed with storms and tsunamis, plagues or disasters after each of the following:

* The First World War
* The Second World War
* The detonation of the first atomic bomb
* The first supersonic flight
* The birth of the first test tube baby
* The launch of Sputnik 1... Vostok 1... and each rocket thereafter
* The landing of Armstrong and Aldrin on the Moon
* The deployment of the Hubble Space Telescope, allowing us to see almost to the edge of the Universe
* The first succesful cloning of an animal (Dolly the sheep)

... etc etc...

Not being flippant; just making the point that, under your argument, there are so many candidates for Events Likely To Cause Offence To God or Gaia that there had to be *something* bad happening soon after Orbille & Wilbur's first flight. Coincidences can be spooky if you ant them to be.

..and talking of spooky coincidences, here's one for you.

Posted: April 5, 2006 03:11 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very thoughtful and beautiful comments, thank you, both Stu and Dana.

You're both right.

I don't believe in God to force others into my belief system as their solution. I present a powerful truth, written in part by men who were different. Men who are the product of a God, who very openly practiced genetic planning. Being the Maker, that gives Him the right. But have you ever asked yourself the question, what was He genetically planning, around? What traits was he looking to save and why?

Having said this, is there a way to tap into this source to save our planet? I thought at first that we might find our answers on Mars, but suddenly I realized that my government would seek to weaponize whatever secrets we found there.

When I presented [here] my simple correlation between what happened at Tunguska and Orville Wright's first public flight following his signing a contract with the U.S. War Department, I brought to the table of science, something just as valuable as any satellites or ice cores.

I have no desire to go back to prehistoric living, but we face an adversary that somehow lives and breathes within us or strangely beside us, much like a parasite does. I don't completely understand it, but something changed in the past 100 years, that was very much like a bomb going off in our heads. Suddenly, for reasons that cannot be fully or easily explained by mere chance, environment, or genes, our technological ability exploded. Worse, the explosion in our technology far exceeds our ability to control it, especially for such a vast population. This makes its true orgins even more suspect. In other words, could there be another reason we have strangley moved ahead of our own biology?

Here is wisdom, for those with ears to hear: The reason the "days of Noah" will be repeated, as predicted by [Jesus,] is because in essence," before the flood ... something terrible happened to mankind, something that for reasons not fully explained, was predicted would reoccur.

[GENESIS 6:1] Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. [Broader Theory of who and what these "sons of God" are]

After this, mankind became so abhorrent to God that he destroyed everyone except Noah and his family. Geneticists will bear this bottleneck of sorts out, although they probably have another disaster explanation as a theory, and would argue that the "neck" amounted to perhaps only "thousands" of human beings.

Now if you choose not to believe this story, that's fine, but imagine the possibility that this INVASION type of event reoccurred at roughly the beginning of our current technological explosion?

If indeed the earth is a garden, of sorts, as Jesus explained, then it makes sense that weeds(aliens, a.k.a. demons) might occasionally invade that garden and need to be pulled out, every so often.

In the summer of 1908 two events happened at almost exactly the same time in history.

The first event, was the unusual fall of a very mysterious object of unexplained origins and makeup, over Siberia. Perhaps the most curious observation I've seen, is how it "split the sky in two." To my knowledge, this is the most unique observation of the event, as objects fall to earth all the time, but they aren't described in these terms. Why the split in appearance? Was it the enormous size, or some other property?

The second, which occurred within thirty days, is Orville Wright's first public flight after signing with the U.S. War Department.

For Star Trek fans, keep in the back of your minds the story of the Vulcan ship, witnessing the first warp signature on the earth.

Well, that happened - or will happen - today on April 5th in 2063: that's the date of Zeffram Cochrane's first warp flight in the Phoenix, witnessed by that passing Vulcan ship! How do I know that? Not because I'm some fanatic Trekker (big fan tho, don't get me wrong) but because, in Spooky Coincidence #3, I was passing a 2nd hand store yesterday after finishing work, saw a copy of "FIRST CONTACT" on the video shelves, bought it, stuck it in my VCR at home - and was taken aback to hear Data telling Picard that the date on the day they went back in time to thwart the Borg was... April 4th... the same date as yesterday, when I bought the tape... and the same date you wrote your post about that mythical Star Trek event...

(cue X-Files music!)

( Sorry, pasted in too much there... this is what I meant by "Spooky coincidences"... )

For Star Trek fans, keep in the back of your minds the story of the Vulcan ship, witnessing the first warp signature on the earth.

Well, that happened - or will happen - today on April 5th in 2063: that's the date of Zeffram Cochrane's first warp flight in the Phoenix, witnessed by that passing Vulcan ship! How do I know that? Not because I'm some fanatic Trekker (big fan tho, don't get me wrong) but because, in Spooky Coincidence #3, I was passing a 2nd hand store yesterday after finishing work, saw a copy of "FIRST CONTACT" on the video shelves, bought it, stuck it in my VCR at home - and was taken aback to hear Data telling Picard that the date on the day they went back in time to thwart the Borg was... April 4th... the same date as yesterday, when I bought the tape... and the same date you wrote your post about that mythical Star Trek event...

(cue X-Files music!)

For those of you who've been thoughtful enough to follow what Eric Wolff has been doing up in Antarctica, here's an excellent paper written in easy to understand language.

If his correlations are correct, then temperature, at least for the past million or so years, ON AVERAGE, follows the CO2 levels in the atmosphere. I find this data more compelling than most I've studied, because I like his methods. Ice is a GOOD time stamp for trapped gas and temperature, BOTH! IGNORE THIS AT YOUR OWN PERIL ... [A 1.5 million year record of climate
and greenhouse gases from Antarctica]

The Earth is warming, and likely has been since the last ice age. Are we accelerating the pace of warming through our CO2 emissions?....of course we are. Will life on Earth survive the warming influence of mankind?......absolutely. Will humans survive?...in the short term, probably. However, the history of species on Earth tells us that we are almost certainly doomed to extinction over the long haul.

But wait........

Is it possible for Homo Sapiens to rise above our seemingly certain fate of extinction? I believe the answer is yes, but only if we are able to come together as one people and rise above politics, nationalism, warfare and yes, religion. The exploration of our solar system, and the universe beyond is an opportunity that no species on Earth has had the capacity to even ponder, let alone attempt. It is an opportunity that should not be wasted. Am I saying that by exploring, and possibly establishing settlements on other planets/moons that we will be able to avoid extinction? Maybe not, but it seems like a damn good start..........and one hell of an adventure.

JS,

Nice thoughtful comments. I used to feel the same sense of optimism.

The real problem we face, is the acceleration of our technology beyond our ability to control or contain it. Disease used to keep the population of earth under control. WE were just like everything else generally, subject to the same laws of conservation. Then, quite suddenly, that all changed. We jumped ahead, and it's not really very clear why. We just smile and pat ourselves on the back and consider our good fortune, but is it really? Was it really bad to live and die in a span of 40 or so years?

The God that made us got a lot more attention and affection when we weren't watching so much T.V., and when we really worried a lot more about disease, feeding ourselves, and day to day survival. But this came with a promise. A promise, a little easier to believe in, if you were only looking at 40 years of living on earth.

Does God want us to go to the stars? "Ear has not hear, nor eye has seen, etc." Which suggests to me something more wonderful than what we see in the night sky.

Beware anyone saying "peace and security," from this point forward. We all want peace, but the security that comes with the current peace proposals in the Middle East is a lie.

The birth pangs have begun, and yet are they strong enough to be heard by the children of Israel in the United States?

Peace and Repentance ... because I promise, there will be no safety without repentance, and there can be no LONG TERM safety with mankind in possession of thousands of nuclear, germ, and chemical weapons. A period of human madness will come, and we will use them.

If the alternative to my optimism is your view of the world, then I'll stick with the optimism. My world is very simple, and relies on physical laws and realities. Yes, there are consequences for our actions, but within our make-up there is a huge potential. You are afraid to tap into that potential. I am not. You think it will destroy us, and I think it might be able to save us.

Every arguement you present is completely based on your religious beliefs, and has asbsolutely no bearing on my reality. IMO, The physical laws of the Universe were put into motion billions of years ago, and how well we are able to cope with those laws will determine whether we survive, or not.

I hate to break the news to you, but there are likely countless worlds with countless lifeforms throughout the universe. I believe you have you seriously overestimated our significance in the Universe with your Terracentric Christian views.