Dense fogs in Valles Marineris Mars.

Posted to sci.astro:

From: "Robert Clark"
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.physics
Subject: Dense fogs in Valles Marineris Mars.
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:56:10 -0800

Presentations from the First Mars Express conference held in February
are available here:

First Mars Express Conference Presentations.
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=36537

These reports are longer than the 2-page abstracts seen from the Lunar
and Planetary Science Conference, some over 30 pages long.

A great image of dense fog in Valles Marineris is shown in this
report:

Reflectance of fog in Valles Marineris.
A. Inada
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/doc.cfm?fobjectid=36724

And this report has a beautiful full-color image of this very dense
fog:

Adsorption water driven processes on Mars.
D. Möhlmann
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/doc.cfm?fobjectid=36779

This article speculates on how adsorbed layers of water might be used
by microbes on Mars.

Valles Marineris is both low altitude and low latitude so should be
within the pressure and temperature range to permit liquid water for
this fog close to the surface.

cf.,

From: Robert Clark (rgregoryclark@yahoo.com)
Subject: Supercooled liquid water can occur in clouds below 0 degrees
C.
Newsgroups: sci.astro, alt.sci.planetary, sci.geo.meteorology,
sci.geo.geology, sci.geo.mineralogy
Date: 2004-07-30 06:53:02 PST
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?th=5bba314873613fde&

Bob Clark

Bob Clark, Thanks for posting that paper about adsorbed water and possible Mars life. I am becoming interested in the idea that we are seeing plenty of surface life on Mars in the form of surface coatings. Why do so many surfaces fully exposed to Martian erosion have soft protruding fine details at the scale visible to the Mic cameras? How old are they and how could they survive wind ablation? They must be being replaced or regrown where they are now.

Water volcanos and weeps

Here's that color image of the fogs over Marineris:

http://sciforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3999

Bob Clark

That is crazy.

Valles Marineris ~ teaming with life...

Reply 1:  my sentiments, exactly!

Why do so many surfaces fully exposed to Martian erosion have soft protruding fine details at the scale visible to the MI cameras? How old are they and how could they survive wind ablation? They must be being replaced or regrown where they are now.

Question:

I surmise that the ambient humidity near Larry's Lookout is higher than it was on the plains.
Does anyone know of a sol-by-sol estimate of atmospheric humidity around Spirit?

I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of this amazing image --- maybe this thread should be moved to the 'open' forum.

It is an amazing view. Would others like it moved also?
FMR

Yes. PLease move it. I wish nasa could design a lander to somwhoe explore the bottom of the mariner valley.

Hmm, why would they bother putting an instrument on either rover which measures atmospheric humidity when they already know there is none?

If they do not ask the question, they do not have to explain the answer.

Where and when did that image come from? Including the original citation is helpful.

Rlewis, the image is from this report to the First Mars Express conference:

Adsorption water driven processes on Mars.
D. Möhlmann
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/doc.cfm?fobjectid=36779

It is a Mars Express image. I haven't seen it on the released images site so I guess it has not yet been officially released.
BTW, if anyone wants to move the thread to the Open Forum, it's perfectly fine with me.

Bob Clark

The presence of frost, clouds and fog on Mars proves that the atmosphere moves water around the planet and is sometimes saturated. The absolute amount of water in the atmosphere does not matter as long as it sometimes achieves saturation, allowing solid or liquid water to condense. The percentage of water in the atmosphere does not determine the percentage of water in the soil, which could be at far higher than atmospheric levels but unable to evaporate or sublimate because the atmosphere is already holding all the water it can.

moved as requested
FMR

Mars Express images are available here:
http://www.rssd.esa.int/index.php?project=PSA

Hi,
"Subject: Supercooled liquid water can occur in clouds below 0 degrees"

Those of us living in Canada see this on very cold days (-30 or below celsius). In Montreal the river steams up a dense fog and the river can't be seen.

makes you think what other fantastic images they are holding back.....

Hi,
What a diference, but still visible:
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/p13_color_release/

Hi,
Sorry for the double post. Wished I could edit my last.
last one was from 1997
This one is from 1999.
Just to put things in perspective.
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/7_19_99_fifthMars/14_tharsis/

Here:
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/5_27_99_duststorm/

They call it a "dust storm". Looks more like fog to me though.

That second one is a very strange image a1call. If I did't know better the dust or fog seems to boil up from the ground like a forest fire. The lighter haze almost seems smokey in appearance. Look at the darker denser material just under the white haze. Is that the ground or what?
FMR