Origin of Life on Mars? - Page 6

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Dana Johnson


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PostPosted: May 18, 2017 11:00 PM 

Icarus vol. 290 1 July 2017

Biotoxicity of Mars soils: 2. Survival of Bacillus subtilis and Enterococcus faecalis in aqueous extracts derived from six Mars analog soils
Original Research Article
Pages 215-223
Andrew C. Schuerger, Doug W. Ming, D.C. Golden

"Survival of dormant spores of B. subtilis were mostly unaffected by incubation in the aqueous extracts of all six Mars analogs."
Testing was for a period up to 28 days. This was simply a check for current contamination potential, not viability in a Martian environment.

Lin Liangtai


Posts: xxx

Reply: 102



PostPosted: May 19, 2017 12:20 AM 

Sorry, please disregard the two links in reply 98. I still believe the white veins of bassanite originated from artificial plaster of Paris. The main reason for the identification is:
1. Many white veins indicate the white material flowed from artificial rocks.
2. On the other hand, few white veins indicate the white material flowed "into" the so-called natural rocks.
3.I need time to gather enough evidence for above two statements.

Lin Liangtai


Posts: xxx

Reply: 103



PostPosted: May 19, 2017 4:19 AM 

Unusual rocks found on Mars?
Mars rover Curiosity used its CheMin Instrument to analyze the minerals in the samples drilled from rocks Marimba, Quela and Sebina. The results of the analyses just came out. The results show the three rocks contain very little quartz and very much hematite:
cmb_524082694min14260561236ch00113p1.csv
(description in cmb_524082694min14260561236ch00113p1.lbl)
cmb_530590971min14990582136ch00113p1.csv
(description in cmb_528182076min14720580642ch00113p1.lbl)
cmb_528182076min14720580642ch00113p1.csv
(description in cmb_530590971min14990582136ch00113p1.lbl)

John Radogno


Posts: xxx

Reply: 104



PostPosted: May 19, 2017 5:05 PM 

LIn,
A number of experiments have been done with gypsum desiccation and rehydration under Mars-like conditions that suggest that Bassanite may form and persist upon rehydration, making it more common on Mars than on Earth (Vaniman, et al., 2009) Analogs for Planetary eExploration.
The stabilization of a thermodynamically unstable phase-like bassanite is possible on Mars due to the low availability of water which if was more abundant would continue to a hydration transforming the bassanite into gypsum.
One plus to the experiments is the work leading to the development of an industrial process for room temperature process transformation of gypsum into bassanite. Another example of how space science, going back to the very beginnings of NASA continues to deliver valuable technology for useful products in all kinds of other fields on Earth.
So again, there is nothing artificial here.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 105



PostPosted: May 23, 2017 12:47 PM 

http://topics.info.com/Are-there-stone-eating-bacteria_719

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 106



PostPosted: May 23, 2017 6:05 PM 

Waiting for my last post to appear. I looked at pages for Trovant stones, got a ''virus' alert. Familiar with them?

https://www.pinterest.com/studio96315/trovants-growing-stones/
Supposed to be real.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 107



PostPosted: May 23, 2017 6:07 PM 

https://www.pinterest.com/studio96315/trovants-growing-stones/

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 108



PostPosted: May 23, 2017 6:53 PM 

These are very similar to the hematite/iron barium sulphate sections of Garber Sandstone in Oklahoma to Nebraska which form organic appearing concretions that I have noticed actually growing in size and upward along fresh graded sandstone and sand/red dirt roads. My confusion was whether they were growing from microbe activity or chemistry and weather. They seem to grow in winter which leads to a presumption of supersaturation of iron and calcium, but as I showed in images a couple years past, the nodules of iron minerals and hematite sometimes have salts crusted on the outer layers in wet conditions. Hope to solve some details some year in the future.
Literature suggests both possibilities, but no detailed answers.
The virus alert page was a hoax apparently. Clicked it off and found nothing.

Lin Liangtai


Posts: xxx

Reply: 109



PostPosted: May 24, 2017 5:23 AM 

Two more artifacts found on Mars:
[link]

Lin Liangtai


Posts: xxx

Reply: 110



PostPosted: May 24, 2017 5:29 AM 

Artificial sand found in Namib Dune, Mars:
[link]

John Radogno


Posts: xxx

Reply: 111



PostPosted: May 24, 2017 8:44 AM 

Lin,
Re:109
These flat surfaces look like they were typical veins at one point and that the rock it was imbedded in split along the side of the vein. Both the surfaces may have been part of one rock at some point in the past. Also, this is on Mars not Earth so there is much science we have not yet discovered.
Re: 110
Volcanic material has had the opportunity over the course of a few billions of years, including times when the atmosphere was much heavier, to blow into just about every location on the planet. It has been detected in about half of all surface areas. Also, the science of super volcanoes on Mars, volcanoes which do not leave cones and are a thousand times more powerful than those on Earth (with the exception of the one under Yellowstone which has yet to blow), may have been involved. There is much more science we have yet to discover on Mars, the simple answer of blaming it on aliens is not at all scientific.

Lin Liangtai


Posts: xxx

Reply: 112



PostPosted: May 30, 2017 8:40 AM 

"Mudstones" in Gale Crater are artificial rocks:
[link]

John Radogno


Posts: 37

Reply: 113



PostPosted: May 30, 2017 11:28 AM 

Lin, there is nothing alarming about this link. Quartz is rare on both our moon and on Mars. Some of the reasons are things like plate tectonics for example. Rocks without quartz are just rocks without quartz. Not knowing how any individual rock was formed is not proof of artificial manufacture.

Lin


Posts: xxx

Reply: 114



PostPosted: May 31, 2017 1:19 AM 

Artificial sand found at Rocknest, Gale Crater:
[link]

John Radogno


Posts: xxx

Reply: 115



PostPosted: June 1, 2017 12:50 AM 

Lin,
I looked at you link to Wretch Fossil and as usual, the page offered ZERO evidence for anything artificial. What you seem to miss is that not having a clear scientific explanation is not an acceptable criteria for determining that something is artificial. It is not scientific evidence. All Wretch Fossil is doing is making up fantasy stories instead of following up with real science.
It makes me think of the early telescope astronomers when they discovered an irregularity in Neptune's orbit that seemed to break the laws of gravity. Many people determined that it proved the Sun was the center of the universe and that Neptune was at the limits of the gravitational field. They supported the idea like stars were just point of lights on some huge dome and other crazy supernatural explanations. Wretch Fossil logic would say Neptune was artificial and that it was self-directing its motions. The real scientists wanted to find out why the orbit was irregular and further investgation resulted in the discovery of Uranus.
The information your link provides proves there is some real science to work out. That is what the mission is about. Fortunately we have real scientists studying this.
Gale Crater was picked partly because from orbit is was determined that there are layers on top of layers of different mineral deposits and you go higher up Mt. Sharp, so it is expected to find new things as the mission progresses.
One other thing that wretch Fossil is confused about is comparing Gale Lakes to Lakes on Earth. On Earth out of 117 million lakes identified from orbit, less than 35 of them are identified at impact crater lakes. One big difference, besides being on another planet, is that impact crates typically have a rebound near the center, Here is an example from one in Canada:

You see, the water is around a central peak. The Base of Mt. Sharp is the rebound in Gale, is sedimentary layers likely built up by wind. However yo u look at it, its top is significantly higher than the southern rim of the crater so there may have always been a dry island in the middle of the intermittent lake periods. And periodically material from the dry mountain may have fallen into the basin below.


John Radogno


Posts: xxx

Reply: 116



PostPosted: June 1, 2017 1:16 AM 

Lin,
There are some other very interesting anomalies found in Gale Crater. There is evidence of detrital material picked up by water flowing into the basin from sources outside of the crater. One interesting material found in this flow is an abundance of a material called tridymite with is associated with highly explosive volcanoes. This is a great science puzzle to work out because there are no known volcanoes near by. For scientists, it is evidence of the complexity of igneous evolution to high silica composition and points to a more volatile volcanic history on the planet than previously thought. The case for super volcanoes becomes stronger and the hunt is on. Super volcanoes on Earth have been able to change global weather for years at a time. Also, they do not develop cones before they explode and they do not leave cones when it is over, but they may leave something that looks like a crater. Yellowstone is one such super volcano. Here is one found on Mars, the Eden Patera Basin, that may well have been capable of sending debris for a few thousand miles and dust completely around the globe:


Look up Joseph Michalski, Planetary Science Institute, and Jacob Bleacher of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center for more details.

One of the things that is exciting about the discovery of super volcanoes is that the highly volatile mix of high heat volcanic material with water and ice may create conditions for the development of complex organic molecules and possibly jump start microbial life much earlier that compared to Earth.

John Radogno


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Reply: 117



PostPosted: June 2, 2017 10:00 AM 

Test

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 118



PostPosted: June 5, 2017 10:33 AM 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170605085344.htm

With the albedo variations of major landforms created and controlled by the same circulation patterns on Mars and Earth in the past, resulting in what we map currently, this vast amount of water would have been hidden possibly by the active supervolcano activity you are describing, John. The surface of the North, and much of the South would be a result of altered weather after a habitability period, although circulation may not have changed much between two major periods.
Perhaps this one study is more water than we can expect?
Perhaps even early Mars was nearly all ice, with episodes of wetness below, as suggested for Earth during long periods?

John Radogno


Posts: xxx

Reply: 119



PostPosted: June 6, 2017 4:08 PM 

Dana,
Thanks for the link. The study reinforces previous work that demonstrate that Mars has had much more water flowing in the past, but with an even larger estimate than previously expected. The puzzle is that the climate modalists can't find a way for this to happen as even with an estimated Martian atmospheric pressure at 4 times what Earth has today they do not think the planet was warm enough to allow the actions that clearly did happen, to happen. The sun was cooler three and a half billion years ago, Mars's axis has a wobble that creates climate disruption and surface and atmospheric conditions were being changed by volcanic eruptions and meteor strikes.

They think there were two major periods of ice but it was probably many more that changed back and forth relatively quickly. Perhaps huge quantities of methane were released periodically that compounded with CO2 and a heavy atmosphere, allowing for short term, intense global warming. Methane has a limited life span once exposed to solar radiation so it wouldn't last but there could have been mini cycles of hot and cold Mars that were so short, evidence for the warmer periods is hard to find. This is just speculative of course but for sure it looks like there is a much more complex climate history that what was previously expected.
Here is the image from the article that gives an idea of what it might have looked like if the water was there all at once:

I think it is possible that water in one area may move to another area in a very short time thus causing erosion in two places relatively at once; think Monsoons that last for tens of thousands of years, they would be hard to distinguish in a geological framework of hundreds of millions. So the appearance of so much water may still be misleading. There are just so many possibilities!

Lin Liangtai


Posts: xxx

Reply: 120



PostPosted: June 12, 2017 10:37 AM 

Numerous artificial rocks in Gale Crater:
[link]

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