Origin of Life on Mars? - Page 3

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Posts: 1195

Reply: 41

PostPosted: April 4, 2017 6:34 PM 

The powering of the fans not by temperature, but by direct sunlight at a relatively fixed week in timing, as on Earth for living objects. This week the sheet funnel web spiders are actively building their webs with heavy spring rains and saturated atmosphere. Also plants of many types are now alive above ground, where they were not active last week.
We see similar activation of the spiders in a very rigid timing and primarily at the most elevated points along slopes and features. If the fans were channels and depressions in control, the active spots would be in the shaded local features, but they are generally not so. That is most obvious in dunes, where the activating crest fans often have a shaded lessor activation on the back and dark face of dune crests, at the same elevation as the lighted sunlit side. Horizontal activation at many to dozens of feet distance through a dune, across various tilted layers, with a communicating scheme between the front face fans and the back face fans.
I have shown many examples of spider eroded channels which have subsurface and near surface core ordered central features, which are the controlling cause of activation of the oldest spider channel source erosion.
Some spiders have cores at the exposed surface, some below the surface. The radiation activation is timed as groups, has radiating or diffusion communication, and activates at old core locations, with distribution of the newer small domain spiders usually in the outliers of the channels and fan margins. Those are chemical and biological characteristics of Earth life type growth.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 42

PostPosted: April 5, 2017 12:20 PM 

How would we expect steady erosion without infill at spider locations? We claim no heat source, no liquid water for solutions, probable gas release for only a few days every Martian two year season, and no other removal or transport from depression channels as described.
A geyser study group dating Yellowstone hot water geysers,
Showing deposition from solution, and channel erosion below liquid surface. Without liquid, would the source vent be a geometric shaped recess, with additive buildup along the extensions?
Would age cause added order and pattern to the core shaping?
While my research team and I work on this, adding our test deposits and sniffing out the results, here on Earth, we can study the repeat seasonal changes and work on 3D images from Mars.
An inactive geysers on Earth,

The search source page for the vent image, credits for a further source at Corbis Corporation, is the Great Geyser of Iceland, showing related shaping and size for the Mars image presented.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 43

PostPosted: April 5, 2017 3:13 PM 

While I wait the hours to see my last post, my last post did not include the research group photo as stated. Still sniffing out the inevitable truth about Mars.
We may never know anything about Earth the next few years, but Mars stands alone in the void.
For positive of negative, there is something with flutes or furrows, even fissures, at the spider core. What is it?

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 44

PostPosted: April 5, 2017 3:56 PM 

I believe this is the reason we are seeing these manifestations of the 'blooms' at Mars.
Earth has a characteristic of tectonics activity, some refer to as 'isostatic compensation', but that appears along the polar axis, and this is a view of a legacy in the timeline or a geophysics function causing our entire earthquake system to be a singular function. This is a view of the weeks earthquake sum for a viewable look at the transparent , and it is also the second 'isostatic assembly' of dry continental margins.
As a result of physics, the wind blows dust, the waters settle, and the crust 'floats' on a denser material. Life is a small aspect of the action, and is a portion of the function.
Mars spiders are similarly a portion of the solution there.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 45

PostPosted: April 5, 2017 3:57 PM 


John Radogno

Posts: 37

Reply: 46

PostPosted: April 5, 2017 8:53 PM 

What I do not like is waiting 24 hours or more to read somebody's most recent post. I am still stuck on reply #41!

just browsing

Posts: xxx

Reply: 47

PostPosted: April 6, 2017 7:27 PM 

Under browsing history settings, see if check for newer versions of stored pages is selected. Either automatic which does sometimes glitch or every time you visit the web page. (Under control panel delete browsing history and cookies - browsing history settings).


Posts: 344

Reply: 48

PostPosted: April 6, 2017 10:24 PM 

Click here to update pending posts on this page

(and then reload page).

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 49

PostPosted: April 8, 2017 7:10 PM 

Took several days to get online again. Was blocked from posting this image for the #44 entry.

The six earthquakes in a week of the total are distributed around the core of a single structure, which includes continental matching margins and obvious ordering. It isn't the only angle showing a similar order, but the processes we discuss are conditioned by these forces.
This is a second Mars spider core with furrowed pit, layering obvious, and a bright elevated core item. In this image many spiders have elevated core objects, looking similar to the local materials. This pit also descends steeply with a similar count of furrows and 'tendrils'. Most follow a pattern or limits to ordering.

This is a similar pattern, elevated above ground level, and not adjacent to the 'spider' channels and the bright core object. A separation exists, but the pit is on a channel at a slight distance. Same shapes, same steep descent, similar sizes. I'll give a better view of this one later. I have seen many of these over the years of this shape, even in loose dunes. Why also in dune surfaces?

I have an additional differing elevated or extremely bright spider item which has the pit on the sunlit side of the elevated mound. Furrows are less viewable here, but the 'mound' has furrows along the slope, and a dark material appears on the near side issued from below the surface. The pit is not filled with the loose dark material, but is lower in elevation and much darker.

It is a challenge to do work with these small tablets. I'll let you tell me whether the patterns are only fractionation or crystalline order. As I stated earlier, these shapes occur on loose dunes from satellite views.
Thanks for the advice, the settings were on auto update pages, but something is wrong here .

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 50

PostPosted: April 11, 2017 5:59 PM 

It may be burdensome to stay with the same image and interpretation here, as no information shows organic active content, however, these are two additional size items showing elevated conjoined,interacting or growing layers exposed showing the only very dark shaded small depressions in the image, and the many examples show angular dark shaping, right at the multiple intersecting layer edges.
The layers give the impression of being controlling and sourced from beyond the active areas, yet the layer margins are the shapes and directions of the ordered channels of the 'spiders'. The scene would give me the understanding that the spiders are subsequent to the layers, are active and BOTH additive and erosive of the layer margins, yet I would assume the additive petals, mounds, and the depressed channels would be a far distant timing from the layer timing if it were a impact of wind, or other massive force causing the layer formations. Side direction flow, overlapping layers and near level height of the layers, seems obvious. The interactive overlaps at the precise dark spider spots are very regular, and show a spider as either a cause of effect of the two to four layer margin intersections. Can the layers actually be sourced and growing from the spiders? In one example here, the petal shapes surround the verk dark core, overlap each other and the layers, yet are subordinate to the dark 'pit' and mound type core shapes.
Ther are dozens of the angular dark cores, some with 'rock' appearing causes as possible shade at a shallow pit, yet there is no information in the pixels at the dark cores. The only exceptions are where the small aspects of the 'channel/layer margins' appear to enter the dark depressions and grade into darkness as they enter the core.
Whether these 'shaded' spots are depressions, cave passages, outgassing, or active zones of seasonal alteration, they are the appearance of active sourced change and they are the areas of the image where the high tones are missing, causing local darkness in the color and IR landscape.
The appearance of a dark byproduct at the dark cores, and the appearance of emissions from the dark cores, is a common occurrence in 'spider' images.
Bright as well as dark material is concentrated in apparent downwind directions from many of these cores. There are active fans and spiders which do not have visible pits or shaded very dark cores.
Meteorite sections or other causes could be reasonable, but how would the co-incidence be such a statistical display?
As I have found well crystallized landscape sections looking at these, is the ongoing geology an active process of causing layers, or is there a active cause beyond heat/energy sources, and chemistry order?


Both fluting and furrowing has shaped the core surroundings of some spiders, and the layer depths could account for angled dark spots in some, but why limited erosion/depression channels only at layer margin joins?

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 51

PostPosted: April 11, 2017 6:07 PM 

As you can see, I cannot control the 'spell-check' changes which result in nonsense phrasing periodically, but use your best guess on inappropriate words. I tried to disable the spell-checker on both tablets, but the settings jump to active at times, or similar security 'activity'.
Similar to the image host 'mutually timed failures'.

John Radogno

Posts: 37

Reply: 52

PostPosted: April 11, 2017 9:49 PM 

From what direction is the sun light coming? The picture is hard to read and it is hard to tell what is a ridge and what is a gully. I think the sunlight shines from the bottom right toward upper left (shadow on the upper left of high points). Also, I am not sure what you mean by "crystallized landscape." I usually think of crystals as being very small features. What am I missing about this?

Lin Liangtai

Posts: xxx

Reply: 53

PostPosted: April 12, 2017 5:25 AM 

Five megaliths found on top of Mount Sharp:

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 54

PostPosted: April 12, 2017 1:04 PM 

I am looking over Lin's current post linked Curiosity images. The deep erosion near the center of the gigapan panorama has continuation down the slope as an erosion resistant section where an obvious change of environment occurred along the bright horizontal marker layer. A change of chemistry and bright blocks exposed and isolated apparently. A vertical fault? Bright parallel dikes appear in satellite photos upslope from the base of Mt. Sharp, from tension-extension of the lowlands margin, and occur beyond the rim of the crater.

John, I am still looking at the one HiRISE image, mapping 'black' cores, almost can't see the thin layer margins which cross at the 'spiders' in this image. There is some detail in one of the at the core point, but you will suspect the content. It's just too few pixels to trust the details even at the resolution I was showing in these examples.
In most MER images, very thin layers cross the slopes, not even following the sedimentation layers, so a cause for such layering would have to be decided.
Brighter 'reddish' blocks or sections seem to be occurring near the spiders cores, erosion indicated, as well as channel formations where the spiders are active, and researchers have recently been claiming formation of the channels prior to the spider cores. Most rapid erosion at the cores would be simple as an explanation, but these petal structures around the dark cores appear not as eroded as channels.
John, yes, the sun in the 'nomap' RGB image 049295_1050, comes from the lower right to upper left.

The Curiosity image Lin presented has a dozen intrigue blocks from left to right side, hope to finish uploading some of these rover views again.

John Radogno

Posts: xxx

Reply: 55

PostPosted: April 12, 2017 6:25 PM 

Check out the Mastcam 1657 black and whites of the nearby mountains for reference. I love these views and can get lost in the beauty and complexity of the landscapes.

There are many examples of vertical overhangs and cliffs that show abrupt drops, loss of material below which indicates an interesting erosion history. And yes, in these hills there are hundreds of very interesting boulders and rocks. I just wouldn't call them megaliths as these are all clearly part of the natural landscape.

This one below has an interesting twin mound feature in the upper right that looks almost like it was split in the middle. On the upper left there is also a nice line of blocky looking rocks.

I could post more pictures but really the whole series from 1657 is very interesting. Look at the mountain top at the extreme right on this one. it's like the mountain is wearing a skull cap!

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 56

PostPosted: April 14, 2017 1:15 PM 

Rather than a link here, there are eight images in the HiRISE catalog for the spot -74.8 lat. ; 331 long. Differing seasons. Cover pages reference CO2 snow converting to 'slab ice'. Entire sections of ground in other images have 'patterned ground' with measurable repeats and offsets at adjacent layer exposed edge margins. Mineral or ice? This location has a surface with concentric circles, large 'teardrops', and spider pattern channels which follow or control the layer margins.

It is difficult to see the slopes as the area is not flat.

In Lin's rover images, there appears to be much more than wind at work removing material, and chemistry is causing rectilinear formations, but the appearance of large solid angular objects is a piece of the puzzle.

Lin Liangtai

Posts: xxx

Reply: 57

PostPosted: April 15, 2017 10:51 AM 

Numerous artificial rocks in Gale Crater:

John Radogno

Posts: xxx

Reply: 58

PostPosted: April 15, 2017 3:00 PM 

None of these rocks pointed out on Wretch Fossil are artificial.
The idea that these rocks are just sitting on sand and could only have been placed there by aliens is not very well thought out. You really can't say that these rocks do not have very deep bases below ground, or that they have been moved there during an ancient debris flow. Concluding that they are artificial is not scientific or even rational.

Is this an artificial rock on the right?:

How about this?:

Surely you don't think this one is artificial:

Now I am not saying that Mars rocks are always comparable to Earth rocks. As we know, there are many very delicately weathered rocks Mars that could never happen on Earth.

There are a lot of geological and environmental differences. Mars does not have the same gravity as Earth which can effect the way material is settled, compacted and concreted. Mars does not have a robust atmosphere with a 100 times greater air pressure. Mars does not have rainstorms and robust biological activity that can dramatically speed up and shape weathering, Mars does not have robust and active tectonic plates, Mars does not have a large moon that produces significant tidal energy, Mars does not have human beings that can make things. Mars does have a history of volcanism and volcanic material all over the planet.

John Radogno

Posts: xxx

Reply: 59

PostPosted: April 15, 2017 3:33 PM 

About the rectilinear formations and angular objects:
I think this is the area the chemcam picture comes from upper left:

And this specifically is what you want to talk about (center):

Fist of all, the image is not clear and may be misleading. It reminds me of when I thought we first saw this:

I kept it as my screen saver for months because it looked like it was some kind of a plaque or monument. Even the Mission Updates mentioned it and promised a better view. The better view came six weeks or so later and it looked like this:

Just a very strange but obviously natural rock about to fall over.

Here are some examples of rocks with rectilinear and angular formations:

Some of these extended pieces, though on a smaller scale, can look similar to the angular piece above.
I have more to show you.

John Radogno

Posts: xxx

Reply: 60

PostPosted: April 15, 2017 3:55 PM 

Here are more examples of rectilinear and angular rocks:

I can show you a lot more examples. The point is I am very interested in the geological history of Mars, and like you say, these rover pictures are a part of the puzzle. Chemistry, winds, temperatures, humidity, trace gasses, gravity, volcanism, ancient atmospheres, ancient tsunamis and lakes, are all part of the puzzle.
But the supernatural and artificial explanations that are sometimes posted here are detracting from real science.

When I was young I was trapped in Death Valley for a few days because all the roads were washed out from a storm. I took a hike with a ranger who showed me camel tracks that were in-bedded nearly upside down in an overhanging rock structure.
Now a fantasy-fiction-conspiracist would look at that and say "This is proof that ancient camels had anti-gravity powers!"
But we know that geologic activity can turn a landscape upside down.

We now have confirmation of tiny small sand ripples under the rover moving overnight. We do not have a good understanding of the forces that are at work in these movements, but the Devil is not doing it! Mar's surface is active. It is very likely that over the course of however many years, these sand ripple movements will effect the rock debris Curiosity is presently traveling through, moving and twisting their positions in a very slow motion.

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