Origin of Life on Mars? - Page 15

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Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 281



PostPosted: February 4, 2018 9:31 AM 

I would not disagree that it is similar patterns to ooids in my untrained viewing. I enjoy finding items of all types in the soil, dunes, and conglomerate rocks on Mars. Combined information accumulating seems to suggest the environment where ooids could be found. All told thus far, it looks promising for a class of objects showing possible life. I even found objects in the ice and dunes which appeared to myself as probable life, either currently or in the past.
I am pleased you have decided to concentrate on identifying the objects as a class of items, yet when I follow your photos I am impressed by the tendency of ovoid shaping on Earth for the mineral types we see here, and the very spherical types we are selecting on Mars. This may be your estimation that a spherical shaping is more prone to biological product, or it may be you have decided this is more likely to be tolerated in the new environment of tolerance by others generally and more likely to be convincing of the readers as a shape less likely to be argued against as a 'fossil' structure.
I am looking at the condensation possibilities as yet, but the environment does appear to be complex and gives a stable and lengthy deposition pattern where a rain of condensation items would not be dispersed well.
I can't argue against your suggestion for these.
We are inclined from the examples on Earth to suggest the ocean bottom as a location for continued or early development of life, vents from spreading ridges as an example, due to the similarly harsh surface conditions of both Earth and Mars estimated in the distant past. As we find bacterial and virus sized recognized items in very old deposits remaining on Earth, we may find some which were more prone to preserving life in the surface which was not under water at origin. I read each month new articles describing a 'newer' interpretation of whether tectonics is a 2 or 3 billion year old phenomena, far older, or less active, and what details in rocks may be fossil, tracks, and in interpretation of other Earth based contradictions in appearances, giving the impression that we are a long time from certainty even where we have samples in abundance. It appears microbes have been active on Earth for a very long time.

The research I linked shows a pattern of seeming compensation for the small number of examples we are tracking back in time around the Milky Way, with
tracks filled with probable newer condensation of solid star clusters along the paths of greater mass items easier to view. The alignment of the several tracked paths not only seems to lead to our finding new faint objects in the paths, but the larger masses in motion seem to be occurring in positions which are not also occupied in opposed equivalent positions on the other side of the plane of the galaxy. That appears to match the satellite image equitorial isostasy pattern which is related to the tectonics patterns of the Earth. It is an observation which would lead to a pattern of mass distribution and activity as classic formation locality limitation, and indirectly to the development of new opportunities for life in a following of the positional concentrations of newer condensation objects along narrow paths.
Despite the estimation of several galaxy mergers s as a cause for the direction and angles of the minor planes seen in the current analysis, the newer interpretation is that the masses and minor planes of several galaxies are also matching the perpendicular and similarly spaced paths observed, giving a set of repeat incidents for the three galaxies studied.
As the description for the newer fainter star masses following the paths of greater masses is termed 'condensation' waround the Milky Way galaxy, and as I still look at the spherical items at Gale as possible condensation objects appearing glassy, I was not choosing to disagree about life as a source for the ooid shapes, but refer to the narrow occurrence positioning of the items as star systems, spreading ridges along narrow positioned paths due to the same mathematical patterned limits, and the relative limits of even the shallows of the Earth's continental shelf occurrences as conditioned by simple math patterns, not yet given a precise term for multi-scaled limitation.
If any of those observations are true, the finding of environments where life is cultured may be very limited in physical placement.
In contradiction to that presumption, life seems to travel well on Earth and is not limited in compensating for environmental challenges, so a scaled set of limits may not be expected.
At Gale crater, along the Dichotomy boundary margin, we observe a severe change of landscape on Mars, and the conditions causing the deposition we are looking at is conditioned by the modifications of the volcanic influence from the north west and north east, from the east, with a major difference from the west, and a difference in temperature and chemistry from below.
What we see at your observation point is a set of unique combined opportunities, yet we also see similar spherical items at the other landing sites.

Your link seems to time the magnetite at 3.9 billion years or prior. The carbonate, would it be the same timing, or subsequent?

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 282



PostPosted: February 11, 2018 11:00 PM 

As an interesting thought experiment, suppose biologists wanted to design an organism that could survive and even thrive under modern-day conditions on Mars, how would they go about doing it?

Perhaps a form of lichen that uses rock-eating bacteria as the symbiont to the fungus component? What mechanism would it use to disperse its spores? How would it conserve or access water and protect against cold and damaging radiation?

Perhaps after the biologists are stumped, we will go to Mars and learn how it has been done for real!

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 283



PostPosted: February 17, 2018 8:17 AM 

Long article by Mr. Robert Walker about the search for life on Mars:
http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/why_havent_we_found_life_on_mars_yet_instruments_to_detect_it_might_help_we_havent_sent_any_since_1970s-230545

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 284



PostPosted: February 17, 2018 8:50 PM 

Faceless;

re. your reply 283;

Excellent article!

Barsoomer; re. your reply 282;

Excellent suggestion!

But perhaps we might be looking at examples of extant living organisms in many images sent down to Earth by Curiosity and Opportunity, without realizing that we are doing so.

The trick might be to first accept that, even if putative martian microbes might have some similarities to Earth ones and might even have originated from the same source, the environmental conditions on the two planets could almost certainly have resulted in vastly different phenotypes being expressed on the two planets and also in the various wildly different environments on each planet that would have shaped the myriad phenotypes and genotypes expressed.

I've been looking at rocks that resemble earth stromatolites and their accompanying veins and mudstones and fine dust surroundings as possible examples of a putative widely distributed macro lifeform that would have been formed over millions of years from various microbes and their interactions with rocks and the utilization of shelter, minerals and miniscule amounts of water from a diurnal water cycle as well as dust from near and far (contributing to the dissemination of spores as well as possibly to miniscule amounts of water that could be used by the microorganisms)

Designing a microbial component for such a system would not be very difficult.

Winston

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 285



PostPosted: February 18, 2018 4:19 AM 

Quoted from http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/why_havent_we_found_life_on_mars_yet_instruments_to_detect_it_might_help_we_havent_sent_any_since_1970s-230545
(the article mentioned in reply 283):
"And then there's the night time humidity that life could exploit without water at all, being explored in many experiments by astrobiologists in Germany. They found that some lichens, and some cyanobacteria, can not only survive but even grow and metabolize in Mars simulation conditions, shielded from the worst of the UV light in partial shade."

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 286



PostPosted: February 18, 2018 5:06 AM 

Reply 285, there are shiny and smooth ooids at Bagnold Dune, which may be produced by modern cyanobacteria on Mars.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 287



PostPosted: February 18, 2018 8:35 PM 

I am still downloading images around the 'snowy dunes' spot, the area was under serious scrutiny probably as the bright material is seen as active.
I will have a couple views of a 'spreading' pattern along the axis of fissures. It will take a couple days as yet.
If we had a microscope for grains it would help at the rovers.
There may be too much ice for a lander where this active fissure process is underway.
Would ice grow upwards through a fissure?
Would lichen survive embedment in ice?
I was watching lichen colonies initialize on a wall recently. Tiny round specks in a pattern that enlarge to cover the open spaces between.

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 288



PostPosted: February 19, 2018 8:57 AM 

NASA will not sterilize the sample tubes of the future rover Mars 2020, so the sample tubes may contain biochemical contaminants from Earth. See details at the middle of
http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/why_havent_we_found_life_on_mars_yet_instruments_to_detect_it_might_help_we_havent_sent_any_since_1970s-230545

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 289



PostPosted: February 28, 2018 4:18 AM 

Maybe Curiosity rover can identify the DNA of cyanobacteria that built the shiny and smooth spherical ooids marked in the link mentioned below: [link]


Curiosity rover used wet chemistry for the first time ever to look for organic matter in those sand grains.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 290



PostPosted: March 1, 2018 12:22 PM 

Have they stuck to the original story of the early MER finding of a 'Slime mold' apparent structure in the soil trench as actually a landing bag fiber of the spacecraft air bag? This was a decade past, and they had plenty of time to study the possibilities. We discussed that find in 2004. Any updates?
***
The wonders of 'American ingenuity' at work. Axle grease with organic materials of many kilograms, making space an industrial future cleanup site. This is how America was settled, and so, Mars and space, apparently.
[link]
***
Why do we see in the soil at Curiosity so many reasonably perfect spherical easy to view particles in percentages?

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 291



PostPosted: March 1, 2018 7:26 PM 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytrrdOPYzA
I am regretful we do wrong actions over time and distance. A museum in outer space is a fine idea, however. It does carry the potential to increase the mass and numbers for potentially damaging effects on life or travelers out there.

It is planned, whether private or governmental.
Concentration on these small items is important. I try to follow your work.

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 292



PostPosted: March 12, 2018 10:22 AM 

It's a long time since NASA scientists publish research papers on Martian organics:
[link]

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 293



PostPosted: March 13, 2018 6:16 AM 

News report: New study confirms Viking did find organics on Mars:
[link]

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 294



PostPosted: March 13, 2018 6:20 AM 

Re reply 293, sorry, that was old news reported in 2011.

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 295



PostPosted: March 14, 2018 5:07 AM 

Signs of past life found in a meteorite:
[link]
Read news report at
[link]

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 296



PostPosted: March 16, 2018 10:45 AM 

Colonizing Mars will lead to the downfall of USA:
[link]

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 297



PostPosted: March 19, 2018 2:21 AM 

Proven: many alien past lives
[link]

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 298



PostPosted: March 23, 2018 10:41 AM 

Biological macromolecules found in 10 Martian meteorites:
[link]

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 299



PostPosted: April 5, 2018 1:30 AM 

Alien life's remains are mistaken for prebiological chemicals:
[link]

Faceless


Posts: 24

Reply: 300



PostPosted: April 9, 2018 1:56 AM 

Meteorites contain Martian biogenetic fatty acids:
[link]

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