Mount Sharp - Extended Mission 1 - Page 58

Previous 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 Next
Author Message
Paul Scott Anderson


Posts: 53

Reply: 1141



PostPosted: December 22, 2015 5:57 PM 

Winston, this is the link to the original sol 1185 image I had posted before:

Closeup of oval object with hole:

In the original image, I also just noticed a very smooth and round-looking "pebble" about the same size to the lower right of it, too, and another similar but smaller one just above it. They remind me of that smooth-looking tiny "egg" seen a while ago.

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1142



PostPosted: December 22, 2015 7:03 PM 

Paul SCott Anderson;

Thanks, I see it.
However, rather than an egg, it looks more to me like a tiny artificial curved vent from the underground. It must be of some interest to the authorities for, as AZ-Dave stated it is smack centre of the original image.

Winston

Paul Scott Anderson


Posts: 53

Reply: 1143



PostPosted: December 22, 2015 9:57 PM 

Yeah, I wondered too when it was so nicely centered in the image like that. And that "sphere" (the larger of the two) looks virtually perfectly round to me. I thought the colouring of these objects looked slightly different also, but I'm not sure since I'm partially colour blind.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1144



PostPosted: December 23, 2015 12:18 PM 

Actually it is this URL, I indeed forgot to include it.
Frustrated as of late with the extreme LACK of images of late...they do this every few months.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?rawid=1185MR0053740000602490E01_DXXX&s=1185

Perhaps that is an impression from part of CURI?? I just dont know.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1145



PostPosted: December 28, 2015 2:51 PM 

More indication of moist soil the rover wheels drove thru on SOL 1182:

There are several examples of this on that day.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1146



PostPosted: December 28, 2015 6:48 PM 

Ive shown these pics, and other anomalies to several people now...not telling them what to look for, not telling them it is mars...every single person finds within seconds the anomalies WITHOUT help, nor with telling them what they are "looking" for...I simply say "What do you see, if anything, in this pic"

As for Color of the near perfect Sphere, I am 90% sure its greenish, and these images have been contrast-reduced and altered such that the greeness is not as obvious, however it it noticeable to more than half of the people Ive shown them to.

They are supposedly ding analysis images to monitor for "wind driven" changes to the dunes and ripples...My hunch is they are doing that and much more.

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1147



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 12:42 PM 

AZ-Dave / Barsoomer/ Dana;

Don't know exactly what this part of the rover is but it appears to have collected some dust etc. over Curi's travels. It does not appear to be the usual collector for drilling samples but looks as if it has merely been a passive collector.

From sol 1206. with the usual bayer reconstruction and autoEQ enhancement.

Wonder how those veins got there? Could they be growing there? Seems unlikely but It's also unlikely, if the collector only collects dust samples, that two large pieces of vein material would have been projected from the ground into it.

Another one for the anomaly column.

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1148



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 12:49 PM 

Another image showing the usual extrusion of structured subsurface material by Curi's wheels.

Sol 1206 bayer reconstruction. Note the green colouration of a significant portion of some nearby rocks.

Winston

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1149



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 1:18 PM 

LWS: on the first pic, I interpret the areas you see as "Veins" in the tray, as tracks left behind from the pebbles (or coalesced material - think condensation) moving due to vibrations when the rover moves...leaving "cleaned" tracks - In fact, I believe the REMS team announced they intended to make some observations.

The second image - Ive been seeing a LOT of similar occurances...One thing I am noticing is a lot of the "rocks" they drive over break, and apparently fairly easily...and the inside of the broken surfaces are bright...I wonder if these are rocks at all, or possible perma-frost like rocky ice?

As for the exuded material...I cant really come up with a good mechanism for forcing dry dust upward so much, unless...its mixed with brine or CO2 ice that when disturbed pushes upward, and then dies rapidly...

They have also been zooming into areas lately...apparently things have caught someones eyes at NASA...I was really hoping to find some more imaged of the vent/oval shaped object from SOL 1185, but after looking at hundreds of images before and since SOL 1185, I am left scratching my head...WHY and HOW did NASA take the close-up image BEFORE the more zoomed out one? and how did they know what to look for? They dont just take random pics...and then there is this montage from another member at a different forum:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/105796482@N04/23412668343/sizes/k/

What are we looking at?? I have my theory...and am interested in hearing other people's interpretation.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1150



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 1:50 PM 

Another image of a spherical-shaped object poking up out of the sand...again, diff color, diff surface texture: Just to left of oblong rock at middle bottom of image:

Thats the 4th one Ive seen...and is very similar to the 2 on the image from SOL 1185.

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1151



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 2:31 PM 

AZ-Dave;

Re. your 1149 and the beautiful montage illustrating the selection process from navcam to chemcam. I would like to think that they are at last realizing that the veins might not be what they think they are.

Re. my image of the container with dust and "veins". I don't think they are tracks of pebble movements. Such tracks have been seen several times and have very little resemblance to this occurence. These objects appear to be stationary and to have a solid appearance. In addition they are the correct colouration for veins.

Winston

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1152



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 2:42 PM 

after the SOL 1185 image, showing the odd object, and spheroid objects, we are getting mostly thumbnails. Im am 99.99% convinced the object in the close-up on SOL 1185 was an intentional image taken...however NO other images are available (not full size.) I have looked in Vein (no pun) for 5 SOLS prior and all after to see if that area was re-imaged...Im coming to the conclusion it was, and images are not being released...I also have a nagging hunch they possible drove right over that patch, destroying further research (intentionally)...I was able to locate that area on the Left NavCan for SOL 1185, bit nowhere else...

Regarding veins and such - I believe we are seeing "active" processes at work...maybe its just ice and brine chemical reactions...but some of what we are seeing has hallmarks of biological processes...and its not helping that they are "rust-washing" the images with fake colorization...the SOL 1204-1206 B&W images show how much contrast is really in these images, yet they are releasing B&W...why? Perhaps they are seeing too much in real color images as well...shell game at this stage. Especially the thumbnails.

BTW - if anyone tries to access mastcam images prior to SOL 861, they are now "ACCESS DENIED" - and its not just me, its everyone...earlier this week it was prior to SOl 800...they are removing access to older images for some reason.

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1153



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 5:10 PM 

AZ-Dave;

On reflection. It may be possible that the image in my reply 1147 might be of a trail left by the large pebble cluster at the top left of the image. However, in that case it would reflect just one zigzag movement only. The smaller "vein" on the right does not show any trail of movement that might have produced the pale spot.

Re. mastcam images prior to sol 861. I have just accessed a number of such images from the Midnight Planets site. Perhaps it is a technical problem with the NASA/JPL site

Re. veins, I think that we might indeed be seeing active processes at work. However they are producing objects that are very reminiscent of veined stromatolites.

Re. the B&W images between sols 1204 to sol 1206. Those images are bayer processed images where one can reconstitute the colours using a GIMP plugin. I've posted some of the reconstituted images in my replies 1147 and 1148.

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1154



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 5:17 PM 

AZ-Dave,

Yes! There does seem to be a problem with the pre-sol 861 on the official NASA/JPL/Caltech/MSSS Curiosity Raw Image site.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 1155



PostPosted: December 29, 2015 7:17 PM 

Sol 427 images seem to be available from the jpl site, as in the above link.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1156



PostPosted: December 30, 2015 12:46 PM 

Its the MastCam and MAHLI images unavailable for Pre 861 unavailable, other cams still seem available.

RE SOL 1185 Oval & Sphere Objects...I FOUND the area was also photographed (several times - at least 4 x R+L = 8 times) by the NavCams starting 9 minutes before the area was (zoomed-in) imaged by the Right MAST , and the rover stayed basically "on top" of that area (well actually about 1-1/2 to 2 wheel widths away) for 2 more SOLS thru 1187.
SOL 1185 Navcam:

SOL 1187 Navcam, same area ( 4 more times x 2 cams = 8 more images) when it leaves the area at 17:38 - no more Nav Cam Pics until 20 Mad x
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?rawid=NLB_502867136EDR_F0511800CCAM15039M_&s=1187
thru:
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?rawid=NLB_502867192EDR_F0511800CCAM15039M_&s=1187

However Nothing on SOL 1186 nor 1187 from MAHLI, and nothing from MAST on 1186 (highly Unlikely), then we get MAST pics for 1187 starting at 13:35 for distant objects, and no close-up images until 18 Mad x (AFTER the rover leaves the area of interest)

Time for a FOIA request...what was images on SOL 1186 by MAHLI and MAST, and what was images on SOL 1187 btwn 13 Mad x and 18 Mad x ???

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1157



PostPosted: December 31, 2015 12:26 PM 

It just seems like the disturbed area of soil is too far from the offended rocks to be typical super-dry powder movement.

It seems more and more that there us a quick-sand style situation going on, where dry sand/soil which perhaps repels water/brine is "floating" on top of subsurface brine or muddy mixtures.

-or-

We are seeing some type of fast (not quite "explosive") outgasing events where subsurface expansions of gasses are forcing soils away from offended/disturbed rocks.

I also do not believe a lot of the "rocks" are rocks at all, but either frozen mud/conglomerates, or some type of overlay material...bedrock doesnt sink into soil...thus it would not be called "Bedrock"

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1158



PostPosted: December 31, 2015 4:48 PM 

AZ-Dave

You said above;
"I also do not believe a lot of the "rocks" are rocks at all, but either frozen mud/conglomerates, or some type of overlay material...bedrock doesnt sink into soil...thus it would not be called "Bedrock"

If you do a survey of the pavement rocks found upturned or displaced by Oppy's or Curi's wheels you will find that in excess of 75% are shallow emplacements on the soil. They are definitely not bedrock and It is not unreasonable to suggest, as I have done, that most of the Oppy pavement rocks and the similar Curi rocks are not bedrocks.

You also said:

It seems more and more that there us a quick-sand style situation going on, where dry sand/soil which perhaps repels water/brine is "floating" on top of subsurface brine or muddy mixtures. -or-
We are seeing some type of fast (not quite "explosive") outgasing events where subsurface expansions of gasses are orcing soils away from offended/disturbed rocks.

Again, there are enough examples from Spirit, Opportunity and now Curiosity to show that the phenomenon you describe is widespread and normal wherever the Rovers have imaged. I also suspect that outgassing may be part and parcel of the cause but I think that there is transient water in those sub surface media that this is partially responsible for the phenomenon.

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1159



PostPosted: January 1, 2016 10:37 AM 

AZ-Dave

To further strengthen your observations at reply 1157. Here's an X-eyed 3D NAVcam image enhancement of a sol 1196 area that is quite similar to the one you posted

The image clearly shows that the broken and dislodged rocks are significantly raised from the surface as compared with the surrounding pavement rocks.

This suggests to me that:

1) There was a significant upward force that pushed the rocks upward in relation to the original surface before curi's wheel broke and dislodged them.

2) The darker coloured soil that was previously under the rocks exuded outwards, around, and up from the broken rock surfaces suggesting that there was an appreciable force involved and that it could not have been a mere flowing of talcum sized fines that was involved. Indeed, Why would talcum sized fines flow UP? That explanation is not relevant here as you surmised in your post.

3) The colour and smooth conformation of the dark flow (from Mast cam images of the flow) suggests that water and chemistry was involved in the situation.

4) Water and chemistry alone were not the only motive force but there might have been a gas involved to cause the upflow, perhaps CH4.

5) The lack of more Curiosity tracks in the image suggests that it was a fortuitous, even though fairly commonplace occurrence as the surrounding rocks did not even show the imprint of curi tracks. The broken rocks were therefore thinner than the other rocks which Curi had passed over without breaking. Thus the phenomenon of underlying dark material that "erupted" when the surface rocks were damaged might be localised into a small resevoir.

Curi's handlers need to look more carefully into this phenomenon as It has the potential of leading to an accident where Curi could disappear down a void in this area.

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1160



PostPosted: January 1, 2016 10:41 AM 

Here's an anaglyph of the the 3D above for those who prefer anaglyphs

This phenomenon is too widespread on Mars to go away. It is time that some serious study be done on it.

Winston

Previous 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 Next


Join the conversation:















Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised
Shocked Confused Cool Laughing
Mad Razz Embarassed Crying or Very Sad
Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
Powered by MTSmileys