Mount Sharp - Extended Mission 1 - Page 55

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AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1081



PostPosted: November 16, 2015 8:19 PM 

Thank you Harry, ive been busy and not able to research much on the latest images, except I see very different terrain now than a month ago.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1082



PostPosted: November 16, 2015 8:25 PM 

Fest: haha, color does indeed tell us a lot.
Im still more and more amazed how much Blue-er the sky keeps getting in new MAHLI and MC pics...some of them its not even remotely orange.
Im also seeing in many pics what I call a wash-out of colors...the cynic in me says they are giving us images where the color and/or contrast is being compressed, and In several images I see blurred areas that just make no sense from an imaging perspective.
There are some interesting rocks and tings where they have parked recently...
LWS: How about those rocks with the white "spatter" round dots all over...it obviously caught JPL/NASA's attention didnt it...
Looks like salt residue from dried drops...perhaps a small "geyser" or vent somewhere close spattering brine.

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1083



PostPosted: November 18, 2015 12:37 PM 

AZ-Dave; Yes the terrain has changed significant and promises to change even more in the next weeks. Looking forward to see what new gifts the dunes will bring.

Winston

Harry


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1084



PostPosted: November 21, 2015 2:41 AM 

Hi

In this Sol 1168 image 1168ML0052970030502419E01_DXXX the Martian mud behaves interestingly:

On left side of the image Curiosity has driven over stones.
Stones have pushed soil into mud resembling formations. Wet soil?
Some stones are broken in places where veins have weaken the stone,
revealing white vein interior.


Best regards - Harry

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1085



PostPosted: November 21, 2015 3:28 PM 

Hi Harry

I've enhanced your image above to show the different chemistries that might be going on re. the exudation of the dark fine soil from below the cracks in the rocks broken by Curi's wheels.

The colours were created by Gimp

This same scenario happens almost everytime Curi damages some rocks by its weight expressed through its wheels.

The rock cracks; fine soil exudes through the cracks. The volume of the soil seems to exceed the volume that would be expected if the wheels had merely compressed the broken rocks down into a poorly consolidated soil.

The image above seems to show that the composition of the soil from the subsurface differs from that at the surface from a comparison of the colours of the two soils.

Winston

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1086



PostPosted: November 30, 2015 2:32 PM 

This image is probably one of the best examples of soil seemingly being expressed out and from under a rock. It almost looks like a cake-frosting-consistency in the upper left corner. And that bright white appearance of broken rocks is very interesting...salts?

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1087



PostPosted: November 30, 2015 8:45 PM 

AZ-Dave;

Here's a similar image from sol 984. I think I posted it here some time ago.

Look especially at the bottom right of the screen.

Winston

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1088



PostPosted: December 1, 2015 3:28 PM 

LWS: yes I remember seeing that image awhile back...here is my take on the earlier one vs the more recent one (just my take):

The older one actually looks like a top crust-like layer was broken, and fell down (compressed/collapsed) downward, the upper left shows a "ledge" of the crust and then the darker material is lower...the area in the lower right corner to me appears to be looking over the edge of the crust, rather than material flowing over the exposed sand/crust.

The new image more clearly looks like darker "goo-ey" material was forced out from under the rocks and flowing up and over the sand.

Part of the problem I believe we all have is that (yes again I go there) MSE/NASA appear to be altering the color and contrast of images...If we could get images from this area a few days later, wet soil should change color as the water evaporates...this would be a good tell...what do you think?

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1089



PostPosted: December 1, 2015 5:47 PM 

AZ-Dave

I agree with with your analysis.

Re. the colours. This is just my very inexpert views only. I think that NASA/JPL is only continuing what it has done for a long time. i.e. producing images that are palatable to the scientific world which likes to see thick brownish red skies and sands and has perfected an algorithm to get just those results. The images contain all the true colour information but it is masked by the algorithm that produces colours that NASA imaging experts think are the real colours of Mars but not necessarily the colours that a human would see if he/she were on Mars.

My images are obtained by merely using the auto equalize function in Gimp which, like magic, converts the skies to blue and sharpens the contrast of the components of the image.

I don't know which approach is correct but I think that the images obtained by auto white balancing or auto equalizing in Gimp shows colours and contrasts which match what my eyes see on Earth and I prefer to use those when looking for anomalies than the standard NASA/JPL images.

I think Alian Wang and his group used the technique you propose in your last sentence above on soils disturbed by Spirit's wheels to infer loss of water to the atmosphere at varying times after the disturbance so it should be a valid technique except that one would have to factor in the possibility of dust fall in the results.

Winston

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1090



PostPosted: December 1, 2015 6:12 PM 

I decided to check every day since the SOL 1168 "Potentially Wet Sediment" pic was taken.

They have re-imaged the area...however almost all we get are thumbnails (SOL 1176 anybody?). Furthermore, it appears they also did some Laser-Chem tests on areas very close to what appears to be the "Icing-Consistency" flowed material (SOL 1177 & . Not once but a few times.

They also took some images of the wheels which appear to show white substance adhered to a few of the wheels, however again those are just Thumbnails (SOL 1179)

I guess they are preserving tax-payer $$ and resources by not posting full scale images...they might post them later in the future...when nobody remembers what SOL the wet stuff appeared.

It appears they may have also re-imaged the area from further away yesterday SOL 1179 But I cant tell...what I do see is white areas appear to be pretty large and possible grown (need at analyze if same area or a diff area with broken exposed rock...but they didnt post enough large full sized images since 1168 for me to tell right off)

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?rawid=1179ML0053450000502570E01_DXXX&s=1179

And, Im going to point out once again: The Sky in the MAHLI images are far more Blue than the butterscotch blue-ish skies in the MastCam...again...messing with the color and contrast can really impact what we "See" in the images.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1091



PostPosted: December 1, 2015 6:18 PM 

I am noticing a pattern again:

When really interesting things are imaged, such as a Potentially Wet Sediment flow, the trend seems to be lots of thumbnail and wheel images in days and even weeks following.

Some of the SOL's have btwn 50 and 105 thumbnail images...all of which they cn see full scale.

LWS: On the color issue...and this is just a question on your opinion: Do you think most of the NASA and other scientists also see the washed out images, or do you think there are a lot of scientists and others who see real full-dynamic colored images and its mostly the Public that sees what JPL and MSL posts?

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1092



PostPosted: December 1, 2015 6:37 PM 

Here are two weird rocks (probably one broken rock) from sol 1179

Its an MD image from underneath the rover so the lighting is poor.

Anyone has any ideas on what they are?

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1093



PostPosted: December 1, 2015 9:02 PM 

AZ-Dave

I think I referred to the thumbnail problem a few weeks ago on this thread. What I do now is note the interesting thumbnails and wait for them to appear, if ever they do.

I think that they are now in an area with a lot of potential for strangeness. The image I posted in my reply 1092 is a weird one that I wonder if we'll see some more like it in MI's later on.

Re. the "washed out" images. I think that the way they treat with the "scientific players" distribution of images has actually improved somewhat with Curiosity. With Spirit and Opportunity the general public had to wait for several months before the high resolution images were released.

Now, except for some of the thumbnails that seem to be being kept under wraps for sometime, the Curi high resolution images are released quite quickly. I suspect that the Planetary Scientists know how to process them to get better colours if such are needed.

Just my layman take on the issue as I know very little about the real workings of NASA/JPL and the Planetary Scientists. I'm just a retiree with time on my hands, who used to read a lot of science fiction and who was a mycologist in the days when one identified fungi from staring at them under a light microscope before the days of Eliza, now trying to make sense of the images coming down from Mars.

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1094



PostPosted: December 1, 2015 10:09 PM 

Should have posted this yesterday

Look at all the greens that the bayer processing generated. Hmmm. I wonder if I should try to do like the good folk on the blue blog and remove all the greens.

I also wonder if the greens are real.

Winston

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1095



PostPosted: December 2, 2015 11:16 AM 

Im thinking in this case the greens are mostly artifacts of the Bayering Sad ...but that being said, we have hit a very interesting region where colors are dramatically different than before, especially the small sand dunes that look more like Lemon Meringue pie than sand.

Another thing I took note of the other day regarding some semi-close-ups of the area they blasted with the laser...in addition to the fine silt-sand particles were lots of 1mm +/- particles of lighter colored material ON TOP of the dune surfaces...these look to be embeded in and with the sand...this brings about a VERY important question: If it requires 50+mph winds to move silt and sand on mars due to 1/100th ATM, how exactly are 1mm+ particles being blown around? and landing on top of things?

Again...either the pressure is significantly higher than officially admitted, or something is spraying material out and over areas of the surface (The particles do not appear to be meteorites, and dont have "impact" type rims around them...they much more appear to have been migrated in place with the sand).
Another possibility...they are very lightweight, and could be bits and pieces of organic materials/fungi...??

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1096



PostPosted: December 2, 2015 11:18 AM 

This is the specific image I refer to...those lighter colored bits and pieces are simply too big to be moved by Mar's "oficially-admitted" Wind and ATM.

AZ-Dave


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1097



PostPosted: December 2, 2015 11:22 AM 

Almost dead in the middle of the Image...What in the world...a Round White "thing"...it doesnt appear to be a broken rock like the other white areas...rather is appears to be sitting on Top of an undisturbed rock sitting albeit close to the right-most track.

Any ideas at all?

As for the Thumbnails...they have now basically just stopped posting any new images...makes one wonder...why?

r lewis


Posts: 202

Reply: 1098



PostPosted: December 2, 2015 8:22 PM 

That looks like a hole in the data, very strage. Almost like all the pixels are just washed out. Would be greate if there was another picture.

Could be a cosmic ray hit

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1099



PostPosted: December 2, 2015 9:26 PM 

AZ-Dave

re. your 1097.

It seems to me that the white almost circular object looks like a lot of the other white stuff that sits on the surface of the dune. They're perfectly flat, in the main, and seems like they might be flakes of rocks removed from the outcrop rocks by some unknown process. There are a few other pale coloured grains that one can see are grains because they cast shadows.

I haven't seen any of the pale pieces that look like fungi to me. I am wondering if they might be small pieces of rock that have been left following subsurface action by some putative lithotrophs. Noticed the colours of the subsurface in the rover tracks?

Re. the greens, I wonder if they are real because one can see the green tinges in the non-bayer images as well and on certain surfaces and not others of the larger rocks. The bayer images may only be accentuating the increased incidence of greens that we are now seeing but perhaps there might be some significant greening at these new locations. Indeed, I haven't posted some of the new images because they are so green.

Winston

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 1100



PostPosted: December 2, 2015 10:42 PM 

The small pebbles could be a lag deposit, i.e., what is left behind after a substantial amount of erosion of the soil.

The white spot is intriguing; it seems to be floating in mid-air. It would be useful to see a stereo version of the scene. One possibility is that it is the location of a specular reflection of the sun by some shiny object.

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