Author Message
Joe Smith

PostPosted: June 13, 2014 3:29 PM 

Might we speculate volcanic underground channels/tubes/sealed from atmosphere?

The much lesser gravity would cause longer horizontal pathways for molten rock to travel.

There seems little or no data to support this. The Palmer paper did not address this
totally un-provable occurrence, therefore speculative is what it remains.

Considering the era of volcanic activity and
supposing this was before the Wet Period, then water could have used these tunnels and I see no reason water/life? might still be present in some of them.

Technology being what it is today a nice
volcanic lined void or cave might make a very safe habitat.

Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 1

PostPosted: June 23, 2014 2:41 PM 

Does Mars salinity and iron rust produce enough conductor resistance (wrong words here,but?).............to produce a magnetic field?

Europa's saline ocean pegged the magnetometer in Galileo. Jupiter plays a big part, shure.

On Mars if the salt is as prevalent as thought and the red comes from rust, then,
hopefully Maven with the much better, on board magnetometer will pick up enough magnetic field to at least, maybe qualify Mars for terraforming.

Atmosphere must/needs to come first.

Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 2

PostPosted: June 26, 2014 3:52 PM 

June 26, 2014

NASA's Curiosity Mars rover this week completed its first Martian year -- 687 Earth days -- since landing in August 2012. Each day of the rover working on Mars requires several dozen rover team members completing tasks on Earth.

To celebrate reaching this longevity milestone, which had been set as one of the mission's goals from the start, the Curiosity team planned staffing a special day, with women fulfilling 76 out of 102 operational roles.

"I see this as a chance to illustrate to girls and young women that there's not just a place for them in technical fields, but a wide range of jobs and disciplines that are part of the team needed for a project as exciting as a rover on Mars," said Colette Lohr, an engineer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California.

"There's no practical way any one person could learn all the disciplines needed for operating Curiosity," she said. "It takes a team and we rely on each other."

Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 3

PostPosted: June 26, 2014 9:31 PM 

NASA's human spaceflight program doomed to fail: study
by Staff Writers
Washington (AFP) June 06, 2014

The US space agency NASA has been warned that its mission to send humans to Mars will fail unless its revamps its methods and draws up a clear, well-planned strategy to conquer the red planet.

The National Research Council said in a congressionally-mandated report that Washington should use "stepping stones" to achieve its goal of a manned flight to Mars.


Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 4

PostPosted: June 26, 2014 9:35 PM 

source,,,, voice of Russia



Posts: 1195

Reply: 5

PostPosted: June 28, 2014 1:43 PM 

Common Mars active geology process, pits, fossae, graben, and similar. Presumably many tubes, not viewed.


A link to life still would be a rock thrown into a pond, if that makes sense to you.


Aeolis Planum 3D glasses are needed for viewing this link, but it is one of the best intrigues of MRO about water at the surface, and there should have been underground transfer zones or sedimentary layers where we could search for life record.

[ http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/ANAGLYPH/ESP/ORB_034000_034099/ESP_034044_1740_ESP_034189_1740/ESP_034044_1740_ESP_034189_1740_RED.browse.png ]

Another example for water flow and sediments.


Posts: 1195

Reply: 6

PostPosted: June 28, 2014 2:02 PM 

It's an interesting tangent to your topic, but here the Garber sandstone area which produces the 'Rose Rocks' of Oklahoma, also shows associated very dark to black, dense and hard, iron based concretions in lumpy and rounded shapes, often linked to within inches of the barite rose concretion crystalline spheroidal shapes. A light toned band of fine grained material is often just above the two minerals, which are sometimes right at the same layer/elevation. It seems in the winter cold, there is a possible current formation of the two as well, even in recently altered and moved material not yet reconsolidated.
While the area is alive and teeming with microbes, algae, and life, there is no continuous explanation for the concurrent cold weather formation appearance.
Even on Earth, showing life is responsible is difficult but possible or probable.
Recently I found a black rose rock, apparently a combination of the two minerals in high concentration.
The dark concretions show yellow to red ranging of hematite to iron hydroxides as inner or adjacent layer loose material in transition stages during alteration.
Some is dug up as solids in place, some appears forming on the recent exposures as they age each year.
What would a daily water supply on Mars produce?

Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 7

PostPosted: June 29, 2014 3:26 PM 

Reply 5 Dana,Commments

The cut and past used from your enclosed link keeps giving me a movable type error, so
I must delete what I copied from that site.

Speculative;;;; Now if there is anything that will sell Mars to the Public, Beauty Treatment that really works, would at least be in the top ten. Billion dollar industry (example= my wife).

Speculative:::: Links to Life,, to be answered down the road, but eventually the question WILL be answered.

Dana,, Vacation Tour, me, my Wife, and our two Yorkies,, Scooter and Monkey,, Starts
Tuesday,, day after tomorrow. From central Texas, to Wisconsin.

I read your posts with interest.. and will continue to do so in the future,,

I don't know about the wifi capabilities of this win8 HP laptop,,, all I have dealt with is hardwired to dsl via dish or telephone land line. Wish me luck


Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 8

PostPosted: June 29, 2014 3:31 PM 

Dana Johnson scribed,

"Recently I found a black rose rock, apparently a combination of the two minerals in high concentration."

"The dark concretions show yellow to red ranging of hematite to iron hydroxides as inner or adjacent layer loose material in transition stages during alteration.
Some is dug up as solids in place, some appears forming on the recent exposures as they age each year.
What would a daily water supply on Mars produce?"
Yes,yes,yes, I like your thinking!
What indeed!
Exciting times, these!

Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 9

PostPosted: June 30, 2014 8:55 PM 

Very interesting findings concerning Mars
dust and atmosphere.


Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 10

PostPosted: July 5, 2014 5:23 PM 

If you drop the outer separated brackets from the PNG linked image, it should work, as did the other few when I checked them today again. The image was about 47MB as an anaglyph, so I prevented the 'auto' presentation of the full image with the brackets.

In your linked dust article, they seem to be stating 2 or 3 particles per cubic centimeter, which seems more a background level, I would think. Dust storms and dust devils clearly are very dense, and the volume carried is rather high, making darkness and opaque images when viewed from orbit.
Interesting that water ice is considered as a type of major particle source.

This link from HiRISE shows a very large pit subsidence similar to what you seem to be suggesting in your topic. Could water ice accumulate and cause slope lineae at the high altitudes forming frost falling there?

The very small hematite spheroids I have been finding are usually powder at the cores, but some of the larger nodules(concretions) have a solid hematite hard shiny thickness of a quarter to a half inch.
It would take me several years observation to show they are actually forming continuously and currently. Much of the layers are explained as forming ~ 200-250 MYA. Current formation does seem to be underway, but only when the subfreezing temperatures are present, with water.
Related to Mars, possibly?

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 11

PostPosted: July 12, 2014 12:18 PM 

If you look at this page from the recent HiRISE Curiosity/MSL position, and drop to the Google 'context map' at the bottom of the page, there is a upper right corner selector for a view in "Mars Infrared" at the selection box. From the relative position of Curiosity at the base of Mt. Sharp, looking slightly to the left of the center of Gale Crater, there is a clear scarp or slope type passage from the MSL/Curiosity rover to a large circular rim shaped rise of material. The circle is not so visible in the "Visual' view, and not shown on the "Elevation" view.
Curiosity is in a great place to find evidence of the cause of the well formed circular rim pattern. Was this a volcanic expression, with liquids resulting? The rim is rather shallow, but defintely a feature in IR.
So many items to study in the climb to the slopes of Mt. Sharp.
Such a valuable space mission accessory to studying minerals on Earth as well. Where can we find an anoxic laboratory for periodic water and ice availability over time other than Mars?
Is this why they have approached and paused at this point along the base of Mt. Sharp?


Be careful in your travels- I find long drives more dangerous each year. I have lost friends and family in road trips gone bad. Gone are 'fifty dollar' field trips of the Twentieth Century. Now we rely on the community travel videos, online maps, and virtual reality for our education.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 12

PostPosted: July 12, 2014 1:41 PM 

This view of a Google map, if taken to your '+' position of a closer view, seems to fall apart at about the second or third step from '+', but if you click and view quickly, it holds an image for a few seconds, and shows the 'circle' I described, is actually more a partial circle, with an arc along the south side for part of the formation, possibly showing movement during or after formation. You have to use your mouse to position your view on this map. Try moving the scaled views 'in and out'.




[link] ?_r=0

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 13

PostPosted: July 12, 2014 2:01 PM 

I have a few comments about Google, and quality control, but it isn't for public listening. The detailed link doesn't work. Try applying the text by hand, then backing '+ and -' quickly.

The sales destruction of correct 'searches' also leaves a useless historical altered result.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 14

PostPosted: July 12, 2014 5:41 PM 

With the INSIGHT mission still underway, and wondering if Mars has an active geology, gravity/tectonics, or surface/ mantle interactivity that we can use to show some movement of ice/water causing local action, I thought to leave you this unrelated link to one of my conversations today online.
I experienced the Oklahoma Guthrie earthquake, at 4.3 magnitude, with five lessor quakes there today, in a swelling to 830 earthquakes in Oklahoma this past year. Our normal for decades was just a dozen or possibly two dozen per year, and quite mild over the years. We are now experiencing hundreds per year, and some are now at 5.0-6.0 and greater. This has a distinct pattern, and the change is historic.
When listening for Mars quakes, we will be looking at a range of topics, including current volcanism, water/ice movement, geology changes, or gravity potential fluctuations based upon some type of tectonics zoning.
Can we even imagine what we might try in the future to alter Mars, or what we might find is hidden in the natural forces at work there?


Wanted you to know I am not just watching the television when not here.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 15

PostPosted: August 7, 2014 9:38 PM 

A related blog topic on lunar pits as potential habitat locations for astronauts.
Science 2.0

Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 16

PostPosted: August 11, 2014 2:20 PM 

Thanks for the interesting link Dana.

Perhaps the Russians can use one of those for a moon base.

America has no use/interest in such nonsense.

If it is not about ''sharing the wealth'',,

then forget it. So very very sad.

Joe Smith

Posts: 86

Reply: 17

PostPosted: August 11, 2014 2:28 PM 

I think I would have to respectfully ask you

to agree to dis-agree on the issue of

fracking. No,,,I will not state my arguments

here,, although I read and followed your

posts on the site. Good job presenting your

side of the story.

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