underground on Mars

Author Message
Stan







PostPosted: November 4, 2013 3:46 PM 

I am a long time lurker, and very occasional poster. I recently saw a documentary that contained a segment about life buried deep under the ground on Earth. The claim was that biological activity was very strong at 2 miles below the Earth's surface. The deeper you go under the Earth's surface, the warmer it gets. There is also an increase in pressure.
My question is does anyone here have information as to what the temperature might be on Mars as you descend miles beneath the ground. With the increase in pressure, and if there is a substantial increase in temperature, conditions would seem right for liquid water and life.

Stan

Kevin


Posts: xxx

Reply: 1



PostPosted: November 5, 2013 5:13 AM 

Over the years this has been discussed here:

[link]

To me it is quite logical that the deeper you go the warmer it will get and subsurface water ice could become liquid once more. We do not know much about the core of Mars or if it is molten but as you say the pressure alone would generate some heat. Here on Earth 2 miles down is getting close to the Mantle so it gets very hot. We have seen what looks like liquid coming out of crater walls in the spring and summer where the aspect is nicely angled into the Sun which suggests that subsurface ice can be melted by radiated heat also.

ExoMars will carry a 2m drill and hopefully it will make it safely to the surface and who knows what it might find. If we are to find evidence of life past or present it is likely to be down there.

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 2



PostPosted: November 5, 2013 6:49 AM 

Launch Date May 2018,
,The ExoMars core drill is devised to acquire soil samples down to a maximum depth of 2 metres, in a variety of soil types. The drill will acquire a core sample (1 cm in diameter x 3 cm in length), extract it and deliver it to the inlet port of the Rover Payload Module, where the sample will be distributed, processed and analyzed.

I have personally drilled core samples over
a portion of our United States.To me,
this is absolutely the BEST thing for our,
at this time, exploration of Mars.

When NASA announced a drill for the MSL I
was big time excited,,,and angry and disappointed when I found out the size of the
drill.

What a shame it is that our "Piece of Shit
President" no longer ties NA$A with ESA.The
Russian Lander bothers me.Maybe by 2018 we will have a leader in place to help ESA.

Stan,,I suppose you have seen pictures of
the Lava Tubes and the meteorite holes that
do not show a bottom?,,,Tunnels on Mars?

If so (tunnels) then we might have a habitat
almost already in place,,perhaps with reinforcement to walls and ceilings.

Speaking of reinforcements for tunnels(or
even a tunneling machine), the Opportunity rover has shown us the durability of materials & machines made in Earth gravity
for service on Mars.

The getting there is only part of it,,Russia
makes the best Rocket motors on Earth,(the motors DO NOT come with navigation skills),,it is the Landing part that is the ''Gotcha" Sad

Stan


Posts: 14

Reply: 3



PostPosted: November 6, 2013 5:59 PM 

I guess one of the things that is intriguing about underground life is that we are constantly reminded about the "Goldilocks zone". Life that can gets its energy from the core of a planet, or geological events within a planet, would completely negate the Goldilocks theory. There can be life on almost any planet, as there is deep underground on the Earth.

Stan

Kevin


Posts: xxx

Reply: 4



PostPosted: November 7, 2013 6:27 AM 

NASA had to pull out of ExoMars because of the cuts but I believe there is some collaboration on the Lander and what they learned from the Sky Crane. My heart did sink when NASA announced they had to pull out and ESA partnered up with Russia who have had a poor record to date with Mars Missions.

The drill on MSL is too short to do anything other than the usual geological stuff.

dx


Posts: 1661

Reply: 5



PostPosted: November 8, 2013 9:02 AM 

For what its worth, Mars is just a chunk of solid rock with a cooling center core. Sure there is ice over the rock in some places [Phoenix], just like on Earth [Greenland, etc...] without any loose soil beneath. OK, blowing sand to make dunes and occasional water sprouting through cracks in the rocks on slopes we have seen, but finding anything in Mars' rocks-one might as well look at the so-called Martian meteorites again!

The ExoMars' rover drilling wouldn't show any more than what Curiosity has seen. How could it?

yt
dx


Kevin


Posts: xxx

Reply: 6



PostPosted: November 11, 2013 7:23 AM 

If we can get samples from the ice way below the surface it will hopefully be like that we find in Antarctica and contains frozen microbes from the past.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 7



PostPosted: November 11, 2013 12:31 PM 

Study of the warm eruptions of the most recent apparent types, such as the small cones around the Phoenix lander site might give some evidence of the relative localized deeper ice effects on minerals and buried content, but those eruptions with no apparent cratering and surficial deposition, at such high latitudes, perhaps have no potential for a survivable rover plying the rough terrain around the Phoenix. As we cannot 'see' yet much about the minerals directly, from a non-return, I believe we are looking at a far distant rover mission which can include a sample return to Earth.

Full mapping of Mars would increase the success ratio for any missions, yet no constant effort for that seems in place as yet.

A polar rover would have to climb the scarps, carry a drill, and still launch a polar return package somehow.

Challenges like those are what cause technical advances. Not a bad general goal.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 8



PostPosted: November 11, 2013 10:58 PM 

Perhaps the technology developed for the proposed "capture an asteroid" mission (if it ever happens) could be used to simplify a Mars Sample Return mission.

Instead of arranging a careful rendezvous with an Earth return vehicle, the mission would only need to blast the sample rocket generally in the direction of Earth, where it could captured for towing into an Earth or lunar orbit. If we are really serious about planetary protection, we might want to send astronauts to examine it far from Earth, as happens in the asteroid capture mission.

Kevin


Posts: xxx

Reply: 9



PostPosted: November 12, 2013 6:04 AM 

I attended a talk where a Mars Astrobiologist said that any samples from Mars will be the highest known level of containment (Doomsday Bug) and therefore taken to a Moon Base for study before a journey onto Earth.

Phobos and Demos could be used as staging posts for a sample return mission so you would send a rover to collect up all the sample rocks over a two year period. A "collecter" vehicle launched from one of the Moons goes down and picks them up and returns. Astronauts in a larger spaceship load the containers and in the almost zero gravity of Mars Orbit will find it a lot easier to launch its way back to Earth. The whole thing could be Robotic and more than likely will be. Robonaut on the ISS is being put through its paces inside the ISS with a view to stepping up its capabilities to work outside and cut down on the need for human EVA's. It could be that this will be the main Workhorse for such a mission.

All of this is far more achievable than a manned mission as you don't have to worry about keeping Humans alive. Humans will enter the story when commercial interests and colonization hits the agenda. Even though Asia are having their space race they are way way behind NASA and ESA so this is all a long way off. I think it will require another ISS type collaboration to do this because of budget!!

kaitlyn


Posts: xxx

Reply: 10



PostPosted: November 30, 2013 5:42 PM 

Mars probably has a core composed of iron, nickle, and sulfer. Unlike the core of earth, which is partially molten (melted) the core of mars is probably solid. Scientists suspect that the core is solid because Mars does not have a significant magnetic field. A magnetic field is an influence that a magnetic object creates in the region around it. Motion within the molten core of a planet makes the core a magnetic object. The motion occurs due to the rotation of the planet. Data from Mars Global Surveyors shows that some of the oldest rocks of Mars formed in the presence of a strong magnetic field. Thus, in the distant past, Mars may have had hotter interior and a molten core. But the Mars Rover Spirit, now a stationary research platform on Mars, will be taking measurements to determine weather the core of Mars is solid or liquid. Also just found this on the web.

"NASA has selected a new mission, set to launch in 2016, that will take the first look into the deep interior of Mars to see why the Red Planet evolved so differently from Earth as one of our solar system's rocky planets.

The new mission, named InSight, will place instruments on the Martian surface to investigate whether the core of Mars is solid or liquid like Earth's." You can read more about it at
[link]

kat


Posts: xxx

Reply: 11



PostPosted: November 30, 2013 5:44 PM 

Mars probably has a core composed of iron, nickle, and sulfur. Unlike the core of earth, which is partially molten (melted) the core of mars is probably solid. Scientists suspect that the core is solid because Mars does not have a significant magnetic field. A magnetic field is an influence that a magnetic object creates in the region around it. Motion within the molten core of a planet makes the core a magnetic object. The motion occurs due to the rotation of the planet. Data from Mars Global Surveyors shows that some of the oldest rocks of Mars formed in the presence of a strong magnetic field. Thus, in the distant past, Mars may have had hotter interior and a molten core. But the Mars Rover Spirit, now a stationary research platform on Mars, will be taking measurements to determine weather the core of Mars is solid or liquid. Also just found this on the web.

"NASA has selected a new mission, set to launch in 2016, that will take the first look into the deep interior of Mars to see why the Red Planet evolved so differently from Earth as one of our solar system's rocky planets.

The new mission, named InSight, will place instruments on the Martian surface to investigate whether the core of Mars is solid or liquid like Earth's." You can read more about it at
[link]

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 12



PostPosted: December 11, 2013 3:53 PM 

The recent HiRISE presentation making use of many prior observations of possible surface liquid slope eruptions should give a supportive suggestion of near surface radiation free cold zones where strong saturated water sources could be filtered to a life supporting zone here and there. The problem of strong chemistry and only periodic liquids and the lack of proof as yet of actual liquid causation for these erosion channels leaves the topic as iffy as ever. Many tears from now we will be amazed at the limits of our technology early this century.
Hopefully we can find the interest and money support in the public sector for new missions with better tech to give a 'on slope' lander-rover which can descend some of these in likely favorable locations?

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/sim/2013-12-10/

[link]

If Mars is solid and not active, there may be permafrost preservation of ices and chemistry which can be activated with localized heat, either interior or from space, or, we can still seek microbe fossils in layers exposed at steep slopes which transect many layers and time sequences.

Finding the best locales to sample will require a complete mapping of Mars- that in itself is still a dream for the future. Just a few percent of Mars is to be mapped by HiRISE.




Join the conversation:















Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised
Shocked Confused Cool Laughing
Mad Razz Embarassed Crying or Very Sad
Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
Powered by MTSmileys