This Looks Like A Plant Fossil - Page 3

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John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 41



PostPosted: April 2, 2013 5:06 PM 

Dana are you refreshing before hitting send?
Also save everything before hitting refresh then past it back,,,,often time I may start a post then stop and not finish till hours later,,,,save and hit refresh so you are
still on the server-link...hope this helps,,
also don't look for instantaneous posting,,
sometimes it takes several minuets,,,
jd

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 42



PostPosted: April 3, 2013 12:27 PM 

Thanks for the advice. I have been reworking the routine background, updates, and more. There was a lagging in general, but after accessing this and a few standard sites. This is the only blog or site where I can enter content that gives a refusal or 'error' response, even in regard to major delays, not just the disappearing posts. I always get a 'MRB' server response, accepting the content was involved or received, with a claim of response. Various browsers, several computers over a few years, and the issued 'cookies' were required to be removed here early on a few years past. I'll try one more repeat of the hydrated minerals paper link post, as that was the most recent failure.
Interesting that some other entries are successful, as the filtering makes no sense to me as yet.
They seem to be operating with new images this week.
General checkup of equipment, same location?
Have any new chemistry content tests been made lately?
Interesting Open Access link for atmospheric and chemistry searches, mostly Earth based info, but related to Mars study.

[link] ?q=Mars&x=6&y=9

A paper from that source giving some info on the various elements in meteoroids vaporizing and stratifying the atmosphere of Earth, giving the lowest elevation deposition tilt towards Fe, Si, Mg.
The Fe seems to be ice condensate available from a high altitude for surface deposition layering over time. No strong tendencies of any chemistry, but the local fine dunes and ripples are a blend of sources. Hydrated minerals have some source of frost/water over time.
Thought the Open Access search source might interest Fred.
http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/8/7015/2008/acp-8-7015-2008.pdf

Thanks again for the interest. I hope we will have new imaging and tests soon.

Was the water source at Gale, frost on slopes, snowpack, or subsurface ice? Fractionation liquidus? Local standing water bodies?

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 43



PostPosted: April 3, 2013 7:08 PM 

JHD, tried the 'refresh' button prior to pasting the entry at # 42, and that did work. It may or may not be necessary after a long typing session in posting. As the pages may not be updating, sometime prior to a post, the differing page content or other problem may be causing some browser dis-functioning. It's all just bits and pieces, as with these new images from Mars.

This is a new anaglyph pair for the upper mountain summit of Mt. Sharp, and it is a curiosity beaconing location. Such pattern, yet a clear meander channel filled with loose material perhaps? right in the central area. Was that a liquid process?
Could that have been a flow channel, or is it an erosion channel of water liquid? Seems a little sharp edged and simple, with a chance to use the anaglyph to find a flow path if present.
Was there sufficient liquid to erode this portion of Mt. Sharp?
Appears to patterned to me to be a water saturated area, unless this is a hot formation assembly.
Would a series of sedimentary layers appear like this with early water and a dry period extended thereafter?
Did water come from the summit at some time, or is this indication that local water was a low elevation phenomenon?

Could a local water table exist without a descending supply of regional water?

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 44



PostPosted: April 4, 2013 1:50 AM 

An additional HiRISE image which is to the east of the MSL Curiosity rover, in the floor of Gale crater, showing possible inverted channels or sinuous ridges, possibly evidencing water flow on the crater floor at the lower elevations near where these unusual 'rock' or fossil shapes are being found.

ESP_030814_1750

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_030814_1750

Beyond the 'ridges' and the channels, there are two very unusual bright cores at dark very small craters, which have dark rayed or 'drift' fans, which appear different from most all other small craters on Mars. They are at the mid-upper left side of the browse image above. Can anyone identify the items?

Was the area influenced by water or a hot material in the production of possible river/streambed's, and possible inverted gravel streambed's?

Will the rover last long enough to check these new small features to study possible lake and water flow spots both East and West?

Could the standing bodies of mystery material be sufficient to give a local water table near the surface over time?

This image pair is also a anaglyph as the summit image of the prior entry # 43 was. The anaglyphs aid in viewing the drainage flows and feature content.

Are these images exposing a 'wet' period in Mars past?

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 45



PostPosted: April 4, 2013 2:26 PM 

Dana,,,,,,,,do you by any chance have
an image of the really really strange
box-like structures (VERY large) somewhere up the side of Mt.Sharp,,
I do know that Ben (departed) conversed about this while the mission was being planned,,,and agreed that this possibly was most of the reason behind Gale being chose over more likable,sites.It will be two,, three years before Curie gets that high up Sharp,,
and it may not even be possible to get to the structures.

I saw a picture of the structures a week or so ago,,,,,,?somewhere? on the net.

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 46



PostPosted: April 4, 2013 2:29 PM 

Anyway,,,Dana,,,if you run across em then
please post your (and others invited) thoughts
as this Mt Sharp feature is REALLY something to see.
Regards
jd

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1195

Reply: 47



PostPosted: April 4, 2013 3:26 PM 

Haven't seen any open pockets like that. I presume it is open spaces being described?
At the lower far right of the very textured summit image, the right edge shows some rather odd evacuation sections missing.
It appears those missing sections could have been a formation void, not erosion. The anaglyph images show the missing material, and show better the channels in slopes.
I'll look for box shapes now.
May be offline here for a week, so keep studying the originals and we'll find the boxes somewhere.

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 48



PostPosted: April 4, 2013 4:50 PM 

Here is hopeing (actually or IE: symbol praying)(praying and hopeing are the same thing hello Fred/Darwin/now i'll go try to make some sense from the thing,,,remember people,,,we are in one third gravity here and no atmosphere,,

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/pdf/1875.pdf

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 49



PostPosted: April 4, 2013 5:34 PM 

nothing about where it is located on Sharp,,,,or did i miss it?

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 50



PostPosted: April 5, 2013 1:13 AM 

Lots more info on identification of rocks.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BHzil5GhkW4C&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=boxwork+structures+on+Mount+Sharp&source=bl&ots=BcadKeqxvS&sig=vi6U62Fz3KITmQHmXFTx2AMZQig&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z1NeUd3KFdDLyAHK_YHwCw&ved=0CGAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=boxwork%20structures%20on%20Mount%20Sharp&f=false

danajohnson0


Posts: 1195

Reply: 51



PostPosted: April 5, 2013 9:30 PM 

I'll follow your links, JHD, and add to the papers that sort out the many possible interpretations of the local history of Gale crater region.
When you find the specific reference to the box like structures please advise me. Sounds like the channel sections at the foot of Mt Sharp.

Here is a closeup view of the two materials and the two dates for the occurrences of the two differing materials which form a changing 'shoreline' appearance. The cratering and textural smooth versus rocky content are striking. The image is at the east of the MSL rover, and seems to be slightly south of the rover position. That was not on the itinerary for the Curiosity MSL traverse, and may never be seen in our lifetimes. Can this rover beat the odds and last to travel great distances in the low Gale landscape? It certainly would help to have eyes closeup there.
As at entry #44.

ESP_030814_1750
anaglyphs available

.

.

.

The left compared to the right side show a completely differing timing/dating and also shows us two materials in place with clear undulating 'shoreline' margin faint lines in the rocky portion. The finer smooth sediments are not overlying the rocky portion and the rocky portion has an uneven elevation caused by cratering which did not significantly affect the smooth section.
All aspects show a difference in emplacement and content.
Are those portions of standing water bodies or other semi-liquid, or is this a wind deposition of only one section of an image as a low filled by a sediment? Could wind accomplish such a infill? Why a smooth surface without dune layering showing in the smooth left side lower elevation portion?

Looks like good location for microscope investigation and the MAHLI camera.

Was there sufficient water at Gale for a water body or for a soil water table for growth of living objects?

Would water be the cause of the two materials emplaced over two historical periods, or, is this a lake bed with the same timing for both materials? Did water allow for impact leveling and elasticity?

danajohnson0


Posts: 1195

Reply: 52



PostPosted: April 5, 2013 10:10 PM 

Posted entry #51 twenty minutes past, as closeups of the ESP_030814_1750 image, and it does not show at the 'page #3 listing. As in prior years it does appear in the
count of new entries as a total post count in the Mars Forum topic sectioned listings as a topic updated. The server is not updating the total entries perhaps while the 'holds' are dealt with or not, during a lag time period.
Hope this can be solved without disappearances of posts.

This is exciting to find the varied composition of close and associated materials. Whether these pieces of the puzzle can prove life was supported as a possibility, we can show the processes of differentiation were at work with alterations and erosion/transformation to secondary materials with the actions similar to what we see on an active Earth.

Expecting to be offline next week or longer, so I'll copy these links provided and do my work locally to report in soon.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 53



PostPosted: April 6, 2013 2:30 AM 

Dana, if you want to speed up the appearance of a post then go to the current page URL with a '&' (ampersand) added at the end. For example,

link

You may need to do it twice. Works for me.

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 54



PostPosted: April 6, 2013 11:46 AM 

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/pdf/1875.pdf

This is what I am talking about,,,,,,I don't know where I can find a hi-rise but I am looking.
Thanks

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 55



PostPosted: April 6, 2013 11:58 AM 

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=7CC&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US Surprised fficial&channel=rcs&q=gale+crater+mars&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSXBpaCxCo1NgEGgIIAwwLELCMpwgaMwoxCAESC88HSCJU2QfYB80HGiCFybyjDEiZKel4vPZ5dJh4fVjHpqECjNeTuHUwqjmrhwwLEI6u_1ggaCgoICAESBJft5LAM&ei=XkVgUbOwA5T22QWqo4GACg&ved=0CCkQwg4&biw=800&bih=418

I apologize for such a massive link but this is totally the best feature of Mt Sharp.I am
shure all will agree with me on this.

John Henry Dough


Posts: xxx

Reply: 56



PostPosted: April 6, 2013 12:04 PM 

Better picture,,,smaller link

This is roughly 700meters above Curie and covers about one square mile,so Dana may be correct in surmising that we may never approach it.One can only hope.
jd

danajohnson0


Posts: 1195

Reply: 57



PostPosted: April 6, 2013 5:37 PM 

The HiRISE low crater floor image northeast of the Mt. Sharp slopes, east of Curiosity, gives the best information about drainage or settling in the anaglyphs. These are of the same area I selected at #51 from the full image at #44.
ESP_030814_1750_ESP030748_1750_RED_JP2

The bowl shaped channels and the drainage
along the slope, are visible as is the raised ridge overflow buildup downslope which forms the claimed 'inverted' channels of an earlier timing. Over time the history of the liquid or semi-liquid flows will be described in detail.
The rough textured elevated portions in these anaglyph closeups also appears under the thinner smooth sediment in the lower channel sections where coverage is partial.
The full frame image shows the slope flows were passing toward the closeup area when flows were following gravity. Did the flows always travel downslope over time?
Was local water the source of the smooth sediment eroding from the current surface?
.

.

.

I appreciate the ampersand advice Barsoomer, and also the image of the 'box' shaped linear patterns of bright material, JHD. I have seen the same patterns on the outer crater slopes of Gale, in one of the early images north and west of the MSL location. It still is one of the only inner side crater slope images taken by HiRISE/MRO. The claim was of drainage down the crater rim into Gale low elevation floor exposures.
I will find the number as well.

If the 030814 spot is massive and a deep emplacement, it may or may not be water influenced. If the few thick layers show a series of water influence actions from weather or subsurface sources, would the lack of thinner layering be expected?
Do the 'cobble' lumpy patterns resemble flood basalt with water interactions?

Does the rough material suggest erosion and later interfacing with liquid such as water?

Do these newer HiRISE images add to the small rocks which suggest shapes similar to life like objects?

danajohnson0


Posts: 1195

Reply: 58



PostPosted: April 6, 2013 6:35 PM 

ref., #56,
This is the precisely the type of website catalog that is ruining space sciences. It's such a shame, and I would be ashamed if I personally presented this substitute for science work were it my type of product.
It is difficult to find many item types. It is impossible to find orginals, and it is not inclusive of most all of the truth of the past forty years of imaging in space craft returns.
The image number provided by JHD, after his search for the original, is PIA14307

photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/

His hard work is unrewarded and becomes a bureaucratic closed loop at the government 'photojournal'.
Who could dare to thwart the asperations of young persons and adults with such a stripped set of non-linked cut-outs?

A lack of oversight has damaged our investments in space sciences, and is culturing a closed society of professionals with the answers, and the population with questions only.

In a topic so important as water infusion of minerals in the exposed features of Gale crater, we deserve a decent catalog with accuracy in the images.

I will find some of the original numbers and site pages in the next few weeks. Thanks for the hard work, JHD.
We will find the answers without the photojournal blindsighting us.

Can you imagine a possible fossil shape placed on this photojournal website, with no original reference, nor any link, nor even a location or image date provided?


jj


Posts: xxx

Reply: 59



PostPosted: April 6, 2013 9:14 PM 

We are getting off-topic, but I found another kind of rectangles/boxes at the lower part of the slope of Mt Sharp in my reply 4 in

[link]

(I recommend looking at the originals with Hiview. Flickr etc does not give the original resolution justice)

Some pictures:

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 60



PostPosted: May 24, 2013 7:17 AM 

Sol 234 post conjunction re-imaging of the initial object of interest:

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