YellowKnife Bay - Page 25

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Posts: xxx

Reply: 481

PostPosted: June 15, 2013 11:07 AM 

Barsoomer / MPJ;

It is somewhat frustrating to me when one narrative (the Geological one) gets all the airplay and the possibility of the involvement of biology is almost totally ignored.

The CURI images of the last couple of weeks seems to me to be telling a story of microbial mats laid down in discrete episodes of favourable environmental conditions and then frozen into rock in intermediate periods. I agree with Barsoomer that several of the images appear to show the top layers of bump encrusted skin peeling off under the current conditions. The grindings will probably show little variation in the chemistry of the rocks. The real chemistry will come when CURI samples some of the surfaces only of rocks with bumps close to the microchannels, imho.

That there are bumps spread throughout the rocks says nothing against a putative semi biological origin of the bumps themselves and does not prove sterile processes of development.


Thomas Lee Elifritz

Posts: 10

Reply: 482

PostPosted: June 15, 2013 12:20 PM 

It looks to me rather like bits of hard rock or meteorite embedded in the matrix causing an erosional nonconformity at the surface.

One has to remember the surface of Mars is littered with piece of stuff not from there. It's even worse because the stuff might be from Mars, just from very far away and the picture is also complicated by hydraulic transport across the surface as well.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 483

PostPosted: June 15, 2013 7:30 PM 

Sol 0303 enhanced difference false color MAHLI closeup of Point Lake rock:

with location link.

Perhaps these are who mine shafts?


Posts: 3465

Reply: 484

PostPosted: June 17, 2013 8:25 AM 

Sol 0304 enhanced difference false color 3D MAHLI closeup of white spot in / on Point Lake rock:

from here:

and another:

from here:

And finally:

Sol 0303 0305 MAHLI / Chemcam 3D view of white patch on Point Lake rock, Yellowknife Bay, Gale crater, Mars:

Basic question: Are these white patches ON - or IN - the rock?

Of course, the rock guy see IN - and the life guys see ON.

If they are IN is it just a geological coincidence that they have ALL eroded as nice round patches?


Posts: 125

Reply: 485

PostPosted: June 17, 2013 1:04 PM 

Re 483 - Hort - I've had my eye on this white stuff since they first showed up in images. In your fist image, back in the shadow, it appears to me that this stuff is on top of some of the small grains of sand, which in my mind would make it a fairly recent event. It would be interesting to know if the white stuff is solid or not. But it almost appears to be liquid; almost like a pine sap oozing out?


Posts: 3465

Reply: 486

PostPosted: June 18, 2013 10:46 AM 

RJS, I think the fundamental problem is that the rock guys will always argue that the "white stuff" was created zillions of years ago deep underground and is just now being uncovered by erosion.

What I am looking for is a combination of visual elements that makes it very difficult to argue that the white patches were produced by a normal geological process.

The grains which appear to be partially enveloped in the white stuff is one element.

Another visual clue is a curious circle of "red" grains in the white area - which by an amazing "coincidence" is exactly the same size as a "blue"circle of cleared red and blue grains nearby in this image.

The chemcam results of the white patches will be informative.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 487

PostPosted: June 18, 2013 11:27 AM 

Sol 0303 enhanced difference false color 3D of "strands" in Point Lake rocks:

with location link.

The strands are not bedding planes, wind tails or cracks. They "look like" algae mats in flowing water.

This looks familiar...

Google for "fossilized algae mat flowing water"

including some from here.

This paper, Flow Structure and dispersion within Algal Mats has some interesting math that may shed some light on this feature.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 488

PostPosted: June 18, 2013 1:47 PM 

RJS, see my post No. 382.

Notice how the white stuff emanates from the rock with each laser blast. I believe this is the target they hit hundreds of times with the laser as depicted here:



Posts: 3465

Reply: 489

PostPosted: June 19, 2013 8:37 PM 

Sol 0306 false color panorama of Point Lake rock:

with links to natural and enhanced difference versions.

And here is a collection of 3D pairs from this rock - natural, false and enhanced difference false color versions.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 490

PostPosted: June 19, 2013 9:55 PM 

I have added the pan in reply 488 to gigapan as my very first gigapan named Curiosity sol 306 Point Lake rock.


Posts: 250

Reply: 491

PostPosted: June 20, 2013 4:16 AM 

Interesting imaging during the last sols! Complementary to Hortons 306 pan above I added a sol 305 pan to gigapan as well (some missing pieces and one unrelated rock - highly interesting - too)

Especially interesting - in regards to the algae mat idea presented in re486 - is not only the patterns visible but also the neat greenish tints of parts of the Point lake rocks (among other a little unusual coloration) which I think are not just color artifacts. I applied all the same white balancing and enhancing procedures (Photoshop CS6) to the latest images which never yielded such clear green patches like in the Point Lake imagery before - not scientifically credible though of course. Also lots of clear white patches around too. Smile

Ach - too much interesting stuff around for one lone "little" robot to address all. Smile


Posts: xxx

Reply: 492

PostPosted: June 21, 2013 1:26 AM 

thanks for the very interesting pictures.

Mars landscape is so rich... I wonder, do we have something similar on earth? How is it formed? :

And also, how is it possible that this structure is maintained after millions of years? Shouldn't erosion erase most in thousands of years?


Posts: 3465

Reply: 493

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 1:52 PM 

Still TWO images in the reply 488 panorama not yet allowed access as "MSL RAW Images":

0306MR1266003000E1_DXXX and 0306MR1266011000E1_DXXX

But the complete panorama is posted June 19 as MSL - Sol 306 - MastCam 100 by impreprex - so the two images were publically available somewhere.

( I checked and the two images were not available from the CuriosityRover either. )



I finally zoomed into the areas of the missing data - and surprise - surprise the resolution was about 2.9411764 times worse than the rest of the panorama. I discovered that the the 3rd and 10th LEFT Mastcam images covered those areas - so whoever created the panorama labeled Sol 306 - MastCam 100 actually used two small registered and cropped Mastcam-34 images to fill in the holes.

Mystery solved.

I have used this trick myself a few times in the past so I should have guessed it.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 494

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 1:58 PM 

Reply 491 is a dusty rock no doubt....


Posts: 3465

Reply: 495

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 2:27 PM 

Spectacular Billion Pixel Panorama from NASA's Curiosity Mars Rover.

The gigapan link is Curiosity's Billion Pixel Panorama - Gamma Version and NASA's interactive link is here.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 496

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 2:35 PM 

Lets be glad with "raw color" so many years of speculation...

Er... We love ya Hort... Er... I was a student of color.....



Posts: xxx

Reply: 497

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 2:41 PM 

Darwin said, "Just take the picture."



Posts: xxx

Reply: 498

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 3:01 PM 

So where does your student Rome? I go from the black body into the visible spectrum....


Posts: xxx

Reply: 499

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 3:22 PM 

Your student goes about....


Posts: xxx

Reply: 500

PostPosted: June 22, 2013 3:33 PM 

it seems Hort does not like Opinion, just those that are like him. an image from Titan ...


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