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hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 461



PostPosted: June 12, 2013 3:10 PM 

Sol 0302 Chemcam panorama of rock outcrop:

The MAHLI images should be spectacular.

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 462



PostPosted: June 12, 2013 5:38 PM 

Hort; Your images also fit a "layers of fossilized microbial mats" model as well as the more likely geological model proposed by Newboy.

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 463



PostPosted: June 12, 2013 6:05 PM 

Hort;

Here's an x-eyed 3D of the chemcam area above. Amateurish, but I think it shows the very precise placement of those mini concretions in very suggestive non-random ways.

Winston

newboy


Posts: 1

Reply: 464



PostPosted: June 12, 2013 8:10 PM 

Hort - 458
I simplified my explanation a bit, but there is definitely compositional grading in the sediments in which the concretions occur.This accounts for the variation in weathering and probably the density of concretions. What makes it a little harder to see is the weathered planar surfaces versus the 'broken' surfaces which are also at an angle to bedding.

The vertical alignment of concretions I would argue is not real but it is accentuated by what look like weathering tails due to wind erosion in that direction, from the bottom up.

I don't understand the false colour images well enough but while there could be rocks of different composition as you describe, I would need to see other images to be sure. The same effect could be due to variations in weathering.

MPJ, re your query on surface composition versus the drilled samples, this is typical of weathering anywhere. Regarding fossils, I have to say I haven't seen anything yet that makes me go 'YES!' Just so you know, I have worked on rocks where I have pored for hours to find a fossil to allow a rock package to be dated so I do have some experience of what to look for. Space and time precludes a full explanation of what is required and I can assure you that the folk working with the better images would be shouting if they saw a good candidate.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 465



PostPosted: June 12, 2013 10:37 PM 

Newboy, I am curious about the ages of the fossils you have identified. Confidently identifying 3 billion year-old fossils might be significantly more difficult than, say, 100 million year-old fossils.

Kye Goodwin


Posts: 1166

Reply: 466



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 1:43 AM 

Hi All, I'm really liking the layering illustrated in reply 453, which would be hard to interpret without the 3D effect, thanks Horton. The resemblance to Whitewater Lake jumps out for me. Thick layers with spherules in a finer-grained matrix ALTERNATE with thin layers that are more resistant to erosion than the thick layers. In this case they have BECOME resistant coatings, like the top surface of the thick layer upper right, or in other places now protrude as unsupported thin sheets. Maybe this alternation of layering is a characteristic particularly of catastrophic impact sedimentation. Is it known from any terrestrial layer-forming process? The "stair-step" layering visible from orbit is best explained if the top of each layer is more resistant than the rest.

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 467



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 8:06 AM 

Sol 0302 Chemcam panorama of rock outcrop:

with location links before and after the move.

Bummer. Looks like this feature is no longer accessible by the MAHLI. I really wanted to see this clearer - in color - in 3D.

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 468



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 8:43 AM 

"and I can assure you that the folk working with the better images would be shouting if they saw a good candidate" (newboy, re 464)

It really would be a shame if not... Smile

A thought experiment of perception - imagine the following image(s) under typical Martian illumination and the common - more or less - thin layer of reddish dust with only the biggest (partly open-) tops of -that- bumps sticking out and the rest of -that- biological coating only changes the general color in respect to the host rock color a little to a pale blue/green appearing coating:
or
?zz=1

Such an easy manifestation of Martian life would be a slap in the face to any long time Mars scientists who use to be more biased towards the sterile Mars concept traditionally though so it shouldn't and cannot be by any means... Laughing

re467, I cannot spot any clear laser marks in the above pano - would be a shame if they didn't used the LIBS component of the ChemCam system on that really interesting features. Shocked

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 469



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 9:19 AM 

MPJ;

Beautiful microbial mat - lichen analogues in your #468. Pity that the Gelogists can't see the resemblances.

Don't despair

Winston

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 470



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 12:06 PM 

Sol 0303 MAHLI closeups of Point Lake Rock:

with location links.

The white spots look very much like current surface features - not minerals exposed by erosion.

newboy, surely there is some simple observational test to decide? Look very carefully at BOTH spots at say, 200%.

When the MAHLI series is posted ( hopefully 3D multi-focused sequences ), I will try to put together the best argument I can for a surface coating.

Perhaps you can present the evidence for erosion argument?

The second image is much more difficult to understand. But I immediately noticed the peculiar red tipped features around the edges of the cavities - like this Spirit rock:

and these others.

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 471



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 2:25 PM 

Sol 0303 - 0302 montage of enhanced difference false color MAHLI view and Chemcam view of Point Lake rock:

Well. That was a pleasant surprise. Looks like MAHLI could reach the reply 467 feature after all.

Also note the tips of the rock covered by little orange spheres - NOT atmospheric dust!

Any ideas what the orange spheres are?

Note the similarity of the orange bumps to this Spirit MI:

Spirit sol 1053 ( Dec 20, 2006 ) 3D closeup of "bumpy" ( and red?) top of rock on Low ridge, Gusev crater:

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 472



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 3:25 PM 

Horton, really interesting observations above! I agree this orange tainted tips is not the typical Martian reddish dust but a conglomerate of small/tiny orange spheres - perfectly visible at the original size and further magnification.

And again a peculiar resemblance to Earthly features obtrudes:

Orange (endolithic) lichen species is quite common in Antarctica... Smile

That orange stuff looks like a nice sample for SAM analysis'... if MSL is able to scrape/scoop such rather small samples with the shovel at very high precision.

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 473



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 8:06 PM 

MPJ;
Nice comparison images again. Note that such images of orange like dust, clearly differentiated from the normal martian dust, has been seen by all the current rovers. I've documented some of the images of such occurences pictured by Spirit and Oppy (at Cape York) in my book on Life on Mars (see URL above. The Curi images, pointed out by Hort, are similar in all material respects to the Spirit and Oppy ones.

My evolving thesis is that these distal "dust" occurrences on martian rocks might be examples of an ongoing biological presence.

re. these fruiting body-like excresences on the rocks (Newboy's concretions) I think they might be fossilized products of layers of microbial mats with spore bodies that formed under certain environmental conditions and which become fossilized in the interim periods between the expression of such environmental conditions. Thus they can be seen throughout the Curi rocks (and Cape York ones also) because they have been laid down in layers. The matrix in which they are held is also fossilized. One of Hort's images beautifully expresses the existence of the layers.

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 474



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 9:28 PM 

Here are the images: in the order of Curi; Spirit; Oppy.

http://lws.smugmug.com/Other/MSL-Curiosity/i-n6XdJJ4/0/X3/0303MH0289000011R0_DXXX-crop-autoWB-X2-X3.png


Looks similar. Don't they?

Winston

LWS


Posts: xxx

Reply: 475



PostPosted: June 13, 2013 9:31 PM 

The Curi Image disappeared. Trying again


Winston

Lookin@Mars


Posts: xxx

Reply: 476



PostPosted: June 14, 2013 5:36 AM 

Wow, glad Curi rover over here.


hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 477



PostPosted: June 14, 2013 11:29 AM 

Sol 0302 infrared enhanced difference false color of peculiar "red" area on Point Lake rock:

with link to full I/R view and EDFC view.

Notice that the "orange" tip areas are "yellow" in the I/R. I think this is a "real" chemical signature for something extraordinary.

The I/R image is a wild guess - since filter data is not published until the PDS public release three months or so from now.

As an aside, the Curiosity data is now available from the Analyst's Notebook up to sol 179 - but again the Mastcam, MAHLI and MARDI data are not available - described as... still undergoing PDS peer review by the PDS Imaging Node. The data are in lien resolution. When the major liens have been resolved the data will be posted on the Imaging Node web site (link below).

What the *bad word* is "lien resolution"???

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 478



PostPosted: June 14, 2013 12:50 PM 

> "lien resolution"???

After doing some googling, I think what this means is that the peer review may raise some issues and concerns about the quality of the data. Then "lien resolution" is the process of resolving these concerns by the providers of the data.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 479



PostPosted: June 14, 2013 9:39 PM 

Stereo extracted from Horton's montage in reply 471.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 480



PostPosted: June 14, 2013 11:49 PM 

The rock seems to have a bump-encrusted "skin" that is peeling off.

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