Exciting soil sample results?? - Page 3

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O Rly?

Posts: xxx

Reply: 41

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 2:18 AM 

Well hello...



Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 42

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 6:18 AM 

Mizar, ref. the entry of #37, and the link of Brian Ritchie at #35, to answer your question about my somewhat poorly stated partial quote of the Leonard David article at the reply #35 link, this is a paragraph of the written criticism by Leonard about bloggers and their 'excentric' ideas. He was using the comment as a jab at blogging as an undisciplined tool of the masses of online people some of whom are out of bounds and way off the mark in the open discussions about Mars.
As no counterpoint of appreciation about honest efforts and true value of online common science was made to bring the bloggers reputation to a correct appreciation for the observation value they have introduced, I made a criticism comment stating his assessment was not as well balanced nor thoughtful as it should have been.
Many persons make solid observations, and much has been discovered about Mars as a result of blogging, and, many of the observations, in fact, most of the information found online about Mars, is not from professionals scientists, but rather from bloggers who are assessing images and instrument returns directly. The common science of the blogs in most examples is valuable and based upon an attempt to elicit truth from content.
I do find the excesses of non-truth to be as frustrating as Leonard Davids criticism, but a balanced appreciation should have been given in the Space.com article, 'Scientists Speculate on Top-Secret Mars Rover Discovery'.

The big secret we are held from may relate to the possible open water oceans and seas of the early Mars, or any of a thousand other concepts not finally resolved as yet, but the scene as ripe for speculation, and that is the best motivator of 'out-of-bounds' non-scientific concepts and blogging content.
Release of details would give the audience a chance to be competitive.

Do you believe the vacuosities of the larger rock are the same as the Eagle crater vacuosities of Opportunity? We have a planet-wide content similarity which gives a common history for the various pond surface layers, which may indicate a singular occurrence or cause, or simply a singular source material infilling. Both are along the Dichotomy Zone boundary at large basins.

As Gale crater has been contaminated by a massive transfer from the West near Syrtis Major,
we are given several sources for any discoveries at the MSL landing site.
Finding common ground at various sites of rovers would give possible information about the cause of the Lowlands of the North, and there is now question of possible granite and hydrated silica formations at both Syrtis Major and Gale with the bright items in the MSL location unresolved.
I also identified Strontianite, a strontium carbonate, at Opportunity, possibly, so still further indication of liquid waters presence in late stage formation.
Just more and more questions, until the answers are given by the rovers or the scientists.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 43

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 7:28 AM 

comments not posting again.


Posts: 692

Reply: 44

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 9:20 AM 

Dana, OK thanks for clearing up, now I better understand what you mean.


Posts: 344

Reply: 45

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 12:03 PM 


Good news about what may have been discovered. Not-so-good news about when we are likely to get the details.

By the way, the link posted in reply 35 was already posted in reply 27.

Brian Ritchie

Posts: xxx

Reply: 46

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 2:29 PM 

Well this seems to end the speculation once and for all. What's going on? Why wasn't this nipped in the bud at the beginning and categorically denied?

Update Set in San Francisco About Curiosity Mars Rover

Paul Scott Anderson

Posts: 53

Reply: 47

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 3:09 PM 

This link works. Officially, no organics found yet...

Update Set in San Francisco About Curiosity Mars Rover

Brian Ritchie

Posts: xxx

Reply: 48

PostPosted: November 29, 2012 5:39 PM 

"By the way, the link posted in reply 35 was already posted in reply 27."
Sorry Barsoomer - missed that.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 49

PostPosted: November 30, 2012 9:37 AM 

With the discovery of water ice on Mercury and other signs of organics it only reaffirms to me that it is only a matter of time before we find similar materials on Mars. This water and organic material that we seem to find more and more in recent times suggests to me that during the Late Heavy Bombardment this material was brought to this part of the Solar System by Asteroids and the like.
We have just got to keep digging and get to the foot of Mt Sharp to get lucky in reality the very difficult Mars Polar Mission might be the only real way to finally nail it. Let's hope Gale will dish up the goodies during this mission.


Posts: 344

Reply: 50

PostPosted: November 30, 2012 12:45 PM 


William Harwood article on the discovery rumours and the upcoming drilling.


Posts: 344

Reply: 51

PostPosted: December 3, 2012 10:56 AM 


Above is the link for live video from the AGU press conference at 9am Pacific Standard Time.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 52

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 5:59 AM 

This post is made on Dec 4, 2012, a count of 51 posts listed, but only the list of 1 to 38 are visible to me due to a control of the server system by malware semi-automated distribution of a blocking technique formerly described as 'cookies'. I cannot see nor correct the malware content and have tried to eliminate the 'cookies' dropped by the server.

As the technical details are as described in advance by many here, and as the chemistry is as expected with the generalized presence of oxygen containing compounds and some minor carbon compounds a relatively unexpected addition, why so much critical disclaimer to the detailing of the satellite chemistry assessments we have used as a basis for predicting the dune content?
Frost will be forced to dune drifts large and small , and to itself chemically, by the automated climate conditions. If we find a pattern of alterations, we would be writing the story sought but not seen directly until the rover passes targets such as this Rocknest initial source of closeup information.

Any suggestions on clearing computers of the malware distributed by the server lately? It would be nice to read the posts from #39 onward.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 53

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 6:39 AM 

Dana, I just looked at all 53 replies of this topic on two computers with no problem.

Why do you believe that malware on your computer is coming from this site?

BUT I am annoyed that I now can no longer post using my windows 2000 machine on either IE or Firefox. I can read the blog fine - but can't post.

Also, I can see from the sudden dearth of postings ( including mine ) after the "historic" announcement the realization that is will be YEARS - if ever - before the science catches up to the speculation here has sunken into our bones.

Ah well. I have another interesting project I'm working on now. Perhaps when it is successfully concluded I will return.


Posts: 250

Reply: 54

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 9:23 AM 

Yes Grotzingers "speed of science" is amazing. They not even sorted out their instruments after 3+ months in the field and the additional cruise phase. Maybe we can expect reliable data after half the nominal mission time passed. Very Happy

Also funny they still have the same problems like with the Viking GCMS despite 36 of earthen years passed including technical advance and old experience ...contaminants..cleaning fluids..what a Dejavu Viking style.

Grotzingers entries to the history books?

- rediscovery of the Phoenix perchlorates
- rediscovery of the putative Viking cleaning fluid contaminants (chloromethane and dichloromethane) or residue of Martian organics which reacted with heated perchlorate?.. sigh

Seems like the somewhat schizophrenic NASA Mars Experts really go round in circles ever since Viking.

I think its more than overdue that a "neutral" party - maybe ESA/ROSKOSMOS (ExoMars?) or even the private sector - take over the search for life on Mars to reestablish some sanity and integrity on this matter...


Posts: 11

Reply: 55

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 11:06 AM 

Question for all you regular-posting Martians.

Any thoughts on why we have seen no MAHLI images since sol 98?

Just wonderin' and speculatin'



Posts: xxx

Reply: 56

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 12:03 PM 

My guess is that the scoop still contains a bit of Rocknest soil which they haven't yet decided to process in SAM or dump. The arm would have to be rotated to use MAHLI on a rock target. Nothing else makes even the slightest bit of sense.

Chemcam has been banging away at nearby rocks - so it's not from lack of interest in the rocks at Point Lake.

The plan is to move "soon" so I would also guess that in the next sol or so MAHLI will be used on some of the more interesting Chemcam targets after the fate of the scoop of soil is decided.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 57

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 12:11 PM 

The MAHLI images I have seen that Nasa shares with the public have been for the most part a pic of a rock or substance that was zapped by the laser. Since they have been using all the internal instruments, it would stand to reason that they simply are not taking them.

My Opinion


Posts: 303

Reply: 58

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 3:37 PM 

I tend to agree with MPJ on this one. My guess is that NASA is going to report the same false negative detections of organics, chloromethane and dichloromethane, that were found by Phoenix and Viking, when their ovens cooked the perchlorate and the Martian organics together.




Posts: 344

Reply: 59

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 4:33 PM 

The SAM instrument has special ovens that can separate organics from the perchlorate.

However, SAM only has 9 of those special ovens, and I think they can only be used once, so they may be saving them for when they get a more powerful signal from the regular ovens.

Don't be despondent, there is more to come in this mission, though I personally think they could move faster. On MER, it took the early near-loss of Spirit to light a fire under mission activities.

Dana Johnson

Posts: 1195

Reply: 60

PostPosted: December 4, 2012 6:25 PM 

I have found that my Slim Browser, based upon a stripped similar to IE engine, works to allow reading all entries now. I have been removing and defragging every place not on the 'history' records here. Something worked, or, someone is assisting me. Thanks to the problem solver, where-ever it is.

Why are we seeing such simple results for a major instrument initial test? Is there to be no public release of instrument readings in detail?
Mars does not consist of a few molecule types nor a few gases.
Are we seeing a TV commercial rather than the actual results?
Also I missed the video due to slow performance here- is there a easy link for the news release from the MSL video or a full display of content?
Would it not be smart to return to the streambed to make a second test? They must be approaching Point Lake for a source of pond material residue as more concentrated, but that is surely not of the age exposed as the stream gravel layers?
Hope your investment Horton is going well, I should be working on Stardust@home, but this is a slow machine for the 'movies' there. So much good work is available for millions, if they could break from bad habits and work with others. Science needs volunteers.
Hunters must be very determined to succeed.

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