Exploration of Cape York - Vol 4 - Page 18

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Author Message
Kye Goodwin

Posts: 1166

Reply: 341

PostPosted: July 28, 2012 2:15 PM 

LWS, re your 338, Thanks, I need the encouragement. "There are numerous examples of the same phenomenon." Yes, that's my method now, collecting all the examples and comparing them. I try to stay away from theories, unless they are a very short step from the images. It seems I'm doing something that Mars scientists are not allowed to do, describing without a theory. I don't know how the blocks get tipped up but I'm willing to speculate that they have been tipped up. I wonder if a real scientist could document this and publish without an explanation of the process? I think that we (Mars-curious humans) are being held back by the need to explain before describing.

Anyway, I just got another demonstration that the "Natural History" approach bears fruit, at least in my fevered mind. I've been trying to compare Victoria's bays to other places around Meridiani, particularly the rough surface type that surrounds Cape York on three sides, and suggests erosion of the bright bedrock. I had trouble finding a good corresponding example in Victoria's bays, but then I started to look again at this "talus" (scree) in Bottomless Bay:

I never noticed before just what unlikely talus it is. There is no sorting by size. The deposit is not piled against the base of the cliffs above and the slope of the bay isn't near steep enough to be the angle of repose. Now I'm speculating that the rubble that covers the far side of the bay slope in those images has been eroded directly from the bay surface, not the cliffs. This is bay erosion currently underway, and the loose tumbled blocks correspond to the loose shifted blocks in this image from Cape York:

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 342

PostPosted: July 29, 2012 6:28 AM 

Please stay with it Kyle and post as often as
you possibly can ,,same for Mizar,Dana,Hort Winston and all the rest of us..

Very soon now all attention will be on MSL,,
we (actually You guys)need to leave something here on this Forum that might excite a younger
I leave it in your hands.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 343

PostPosted: July 29, 2012 11:38 AM 

sol 3021 ( Jul 24, 2012 ) montage of enhanced difference false color selected views of Whim Creek:

with links to 3D false color views.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 344

PostPosted: July 29, 2012 12:49 PM 

sol 3023 ( Jul 26, 2012 ) Enhanced difference false color 3D of peculiar rocks at "distal" end of Whim creek:

with location links.

Do these images have any value to anyone in seeing what's going on?


Posts: 3062

Reply: 345

PostPosted: July 29, 2012 10:37 PM 

Hort; I, for one, consider all your images to be of great value. These ones, perhaps especially so since they seem to have captured possible differences in chemistry or textures that are not captured in the standard images.

Keep on keeping on.


Still monitoring MRB? If so, I am still awaiting an email from you with comments about the ebook from your colleagues (positive or negative) and, if you agree, with permission to use your earlier comment on the ebook's backpage.

My email address is (small_lw@hotmail.com)


John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 346

PostPosted: July 30, 2012 4:41 AM 



Posts: 3465

Reply: 347

PostPosted: July 30, 2012 8:09 AM 

sol 2971 ( Jun 2, 2012 ) animation of move back to gypsum vein "Monte Cristo":

Two things:

First, it surprises me that this 3D animation ( and another ) had a higher down-link priority than recent operational images - such as two incomplete navcam views looking towards the "bay" end of Whim Creek.

Hey, maybe the fossil ( or the big chunk of clay? ) uncovered by the rover as it crossed Whim Creek is in the lower right corner of the missing data!

Secondly, once ( if ) Curiosity is roving, just how frequently are HD color movies going to be taken during the rover drive?

Just one frame of a 1280x720 color movie is about the same data as 2.6 full frame Oppy pictures - so even a "short" ( 1 minute at 1 frame per second? ) would equal about 25 times Oppy's current daily allotment of data relayed through Odyssey.



Posts: 3465

Reply: 348

PostPosted: July 30, 2012 9:36 AM 

sol 3027 ( Jul 30, 2012 ) MI Rock 1:

and rock 2:

with location links.

Kye Goodwin

Posts: 1166

Reply: 349

PostPosted: July 30, 2012 2:57 PM 

John Henry Dough, re your 342, Thanks very much. Horton, re your 344, Your images have great value to me.

Have a look at the structure of rock 1, revealed by Horton's 3D MI pair in 348. I see more proof that sand-scour erosion has nothing to do with this landscape. There is no hint anywhere of ventifacting in a prevailing wind, and deeply perforated rocks like rock 1 can not possibly have been eroded by flying sand. To me it is becoming more and more likely that shallow burial in sand is the condition that causes erosion.

OK, you'll all laugh, but its a very simple theory: Look at where the sand is on those two rock surfaces in 348. Is it, or is it not where the most rapid erosion has taken place? I've realized something else lately: There are places at Meridiani where the layered rock has eroded to a condition where some layers now jut out way beyond others. In other places, most places, this effect is less extreme. It seems, and I'm going to have to go back through the whole library and work on this, but it seems that the jutting layers are another condition that is spatially correlated with the presence of microchannels of fine dark sand. Consider the image below and Horton's recent 3D version of this scene:

Look at the large outcrop with projecting layers near the image center. There is dark sand along all the concavities between the jutting layers. Dark sand also surrounds the outcrop, at least wherever we can see it's contact with the ground. There is something strange about that wide pile of dark sand at the right end of the outcrop. Does the location of this stuff in the landscape make sense from aerodynamics alone? It seems that it collects where it will, without showing the consistency that should result from movement in a consistent aeolian environment.

Aeolian sand movements can produce a very orderly landscape, but this will usually be a simple order, with much orderly repetition of similar ripples and dunes. I think that the "aeolian" scene at Meridiani is complex, not simple. Its orderly and complex.

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 350

PostPosted: July 30, 2012 3:53 PM 

Thinking WAY outta the box:

I realize it sounds stupid but my first impression of rock #1,,,is that it looks as if it has been melted then cooled off.,,Really,,
I mean it looks just like aluminum slag pushed of the top of a crucible of molten metal,but we know that aint it.

And #2,,,,the black speckles,,are these data drop-outs,,I would think too small for BB's,,,or??

Kyle ,,a bit to the left of that rock there is a vertical smear almost like a possible dd track,,moving downward?? There looks to be possibly dome more fines in the air down from your rock center screen moving horizontally?

Really nice 3D's Horton.

got me a 21" Apple Studio probably old enough to draw SS,,,footprint of a Sherman Tank,,but ''what a picture'!

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 351

PostPosted: July 30, 2012 3:57 PM 


possibly dome more fines in the air,,,dome=some


Posts: 344

Reply: 352

PostPosted: July 30, 2012 11:52 PM 

After seeing Horton's 3D, I couldn't resist doing a closeup of the tunnel and the knobby surface.

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 353

PostPosted: July 31, 2012 7:52 AM 

Really hard to see this as an erosion feature

I agree with what Mizar said a few post back,,,,fossilized.But it would seem that it would have to have been a life-form that made a hole in the rock while it was still soft,,ie,mud or clay.

Or it might be something totally different,,I
think we may be wrong to even use Earth comparisons.Very high co2 atm plus one third gravity plus gasses and chemicals we haven't discovered nor identified,,we don't even know the salinity of the water much less what else is in it.I DO think more and more scientist are realizing there must be shallow aquifers.Hopefully the MSL will clear
up some questions,,we can be positive there
will be even more new and unexplained features,all begging exclamations.(answers)

All my speculative musings are just that,,,
fictional thoughts.

As far as the MSL,,,,,shucks Oppy might just have another year (Earth year) or more left,,
she is ,,one tough old girl,a veteran now well broken in and tough as a nail.

And something else Mizar said a'billion dollar webcam'...stupid for the handlers to be only concerned with distance in meters in a sol,,,I know we cant do much science but we could possibly do a little,,hell,push a rock over and photograph its bottom,,,,find a depressed place and try to dig a few inches and observe the features below the surface...other things that don't come to my mind.

There are a lot of people here that should be posting,,dont be nervous,,shit,look at all the crap that I post,,and it don't bother me a bit that I hardly ever get a reply (well,a few replies,,to be honest),
no bother to me,nor should it be.If I can push and prod just one educated human to
make a lucid and possibly provable observation,about what is going on,on Mars,,
then I am well paid.

The point I am trying to make is,,,,we need to get as many thoughts as possible to the table,that is all they are ''thoughts and ideas'',,,if you hang around this MRB then you qualify as a Marsaholic..which as Martha
Stewart would say ''this is a GOOD thing''

Waiting,,,,always waiting...

Ben where are you?,,I pray all is well with You.

Where the heck is Ben?


Posts: 3465

Reply: 354

PostPosted: July 31, 2012 9:43 AM 

sol 3024 ( Jul 27, 2012 ) enhanced difference false color panorama of the west bank of whim creek:

with a link to the B&W version. If you want the NASA version of the pan, just tint the B&W red - bright, blinding red.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 355

PostPosted: July 31, 2012 4:01 PM 

Looks like the next few sols will be devoted to data dumping.

Here are the 3Ds of a sol 2891 "spot" study of the Mill creek vein - including this very peculiar bit of "green":

which, unfortunately, was not in the "spot":

Looks like the intern finally got the "spot" program to work correctly.

I will spend the day doing "catch-up" processing.

So far, here is the sol 3000 "celebration" image with an enhanced difference "natural" color treatment in an HD format:

and here is a pretty track picture from sol 2981:


Posts: 3465

Reply: 356

PostPosted: July 31, 2012 11:05 PM 

sol 3002 ( Jul 4, 2012 ) full filter enhanced difference false color of rock Cortez:


Posts: 3465

Reply: 357

PostPosted: August 1, 2012 11:23 AM 

sol 3029 ( Aug 1, 2012 ) enhanced difference false color of Whim Creek:

So many colors - so few ideas.

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 358

PostPosted: August 1, 2012 11:43 AM 

Reply 356,,
The upper left rock,with it's staight edge,,,
common sense tells me that ONLY something flowing past this rock could make a straight edge like this.

And we see this in many,many,MANY,,Mars images.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 359

PostPosted: August 2, 2012 3:55 PM 

A few more:

I know what I see.

What do you see?


Posts: 692

Reply: 360

PostPosted: August 2, 2012 5:57 PM 

I think I know what you know...

I think I see evidence of "stain" here, if this was an area with periodic flows of water I think I would fully understand what I see here.

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