On the Road Again - volume 8 - Page 14

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John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 261

PostPosted: May 26, 2011 11:21 PM 

dust devil tracks?


Posts: 5

Reply: 262

PostPosted: May 26, 2011 11:57 PM 

OK Fred, liquid water would leave some very distinctive evidence which is lacking, so where is the gas-vapor coming from in these isolated locations. Rolling Eyes

Hort, if it is that thin serrated slab they are looking at and why do you suppose ??


Posts: 344

Reply: 263

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 2:06 AM 

They are following a long-term plan.


Posts: xxx

Reply: 264

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 2:21 AM 

JHD. Are you suggesting that dust devils provide transient, localised wind energy and could clear some of the light dust out of the dessication cracks? A most plausible hypothesis.

Water bubbling out of cracks Fred? You are only 3 - 4 billion years too late. Rolling Eyes


Posts: 73

Reply: 265

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 9:31 AM 

Serpens (Huckleberry),

You will start “learning” when you stop “believing” you “know.”

The truth is beyond “belief,” meaning it does not require it.

Fredric B. Duselhoff

Kye Goodwin

Posts: 1166

Reply: 266

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 10:32 AM 

My new motto is Collect and Describe. Reliable explanations for many Martian phenomena are far off, in my opinion, but there is plenty of work to do just collecting apparently similar examples and describing their attributes, before explanations begin to form. Here's that image from Barsoomers 254 again:

And here are a couple of examples of ground with similar attributes from Erebus:

There are hundreds (or possibly thousands) of "microchannels" visible in the library so a first step would be to collect and organize them. A basic question I would like to answer is how much of the structures in these images consists of bright rock and how much is soil? It is pretty clear, I guess, in these examples, that the rock is near the dark surfaces that we can see, because the channels are so sharply "incised" and clearly correspond to the "fractures" between sections of bright bedrock. But are the "bevels" where the "fractures" widen at the surface expressed mostly in soil or mostly in rock? Answering that sort of descriptive question will affect our understanding of how the channels form.


Posts: 3465

Reply: 267

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 10:42 AM 

sol 2608 ( May 26, 2011 ) 3D saturated false color of target "Valdivia":

with links.

I have called the pattern on this rock "thatched". The connection between the berries and the "thatch" is curious.

Looks like a quick APXS and MI look over the long weekend and then its "hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more."


Posts: 344

Reply: 268

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 11:41 AM 

Curious "chicken feet" markings on this rock. Less visible in the other filters. The right eye image is slightly rotated with respect to the left image.


Posts: 344

Reply: 269

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 11:43 AM 

Oops, sorry Hort. I didn't realize this was the same rock as your #267.


Posts: 344

Reply: 270

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 11:58 AM 

At the bottom left of Horton's #267, a berry-free channel through a berry-rich area.

I don't see how wind or falling into void space could cause this. The channel depression is rounded, not a sharp crack. Berries seem to have fallen into the berry-rich area, but not into the channel; presumably it was formed later.

Kye Goodwin

Posts: 1166

Reply: 271

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 3:40 PM 

Horton, Barsoomer, Here is another example of markings like the "thatch" or "chicken feet":

I haven't collected images of this phenomenon yet, but I'll start. In these two examples the little linear depressions are so similar in shape, size, and density of occurrence that it is hard to believe there is no connection. In the example from Eagle Crater there seems to be an overall orientation bias toward the long axes of the depressions running up and down the slope. In the example from the annulus of Endeavour they seem more randomly oriented. Is there a bias in both examples toward the little depressions running parallel to the present surface? Its hard to say because if one of these did run into the surface instead of across the surface it would not look like a shallow groove and would not be recognizable. Still, such a determination might be possible from a rigorous analysis.

BTW, the mainstream calls these "vugs" and attributes them to the selective aqueous dissolution of calcium sulphate crystals.


Posts: 344

Reply: 272

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 4:06 PM 

My reply 270: I suppose a possible sequence of events to form the channel is:

1. The berries fell onto the soil.
2. A crack formed swallowing up some of the berries.
3. Later the crack filled with dust, smoothing out the edges.

However, a much more dramatic channel is shown here

from Endurance crater. In the Endurance case, there is a concentrated "margin" of berries around the bent "neck" of the channel, as though overflowing fluid had washed up some berries onto the bank. Now this could have happened a long time ago, but it must have happened AFTER the berry lag deposit formed.

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 273

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 5:31 PM 

Water bubbling out of cracks Fred? You are only 3 - 4 billion years too late.


Just reading a Mars Daily Magazine (online)
article claiming conclusive evidence (sounded
good to me)ha,,,,,,that Mars age is between 2 and 4 Million years old, will provide source link
to article later today,,,,trying to do work outside,,
temp 89*F,,,came inside to cool down

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 274

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 6:12 PM 

Chicago IL (SPX) May 26, 2011 - Mars developed in as little as two to four million years after the birth of the solar system, far more quickly than Earth, according to a new study published in the May 26 issue of the journal Nature. The red planet's rapid formation helps explain why it is so small, say the study's co-authors, Nicolas Dauphas at the University of Chicago and Ali Pourmand at the University of Miami (UM) Rosensti ... more

John Henry Dough

Posts: xxx

Reply: 275

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 7:31 PM 

The rest of reply 264,,dd tracks,,,,you have taken it a step furthur than what i was thing but,,Yes..
possobilities are only coverned by conditions,

Pardon,,but I just Had to cut and paste the last part of that article,,,,,,,


they divided the thorium-tungsten ratio of the Martian meteorites by the thorium-hafnium ratio of the chondrites.

"Why do you do that? Because thorium and tungsten have very similar chemical behavior," Dauphas said.

Once Dauphas and Pourmand had determined this ratio, they were able to calculate how long it took Mars to develop into a planet. A computer simulation based on these data showed that Mars must have reached half its present size only two million years after the formation of the solar system.

A quickly forming Mars would help explain the puzzling similarities in the xenon content of its atmosphere and that of Earth.

"Maybe it's just a coincidence, but maybe the solution is that part of the atmosphere of Earth was inherited from an earlier generation of embryos that had their own atmospheres, maybe a Mars-like atmosphere," Dauphas said.
>>>>Could someone help me out with that
last paragraph?,,,maybe i got too hot1
Ahhhhh,,now i savvy kemo sabe
Earth ?Stole? Mars atmosphere
This next paragraph is talking about a Possibility.Only.
The short formation history of Mars further raises the possibility that aluminum 26, which is known from meteorites, turned the planet into a magma ocean early in it history. Aluminum 26 has a half-life of 700,000 years, so it would have disappeared too quickly to contribute to the internal heat of Earth.

If Mars formed in two million years, however, significant quantities of aluminum 26 would remain. "When this aluminum 26 decays it releases heat and can completely melt the planet," Pourmand said.


Posts: 344

Reply: 276

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 8:04 PM 

Kye, re 271. There seems to be some relationship between the vugs and some berry stems.


Posts: 5

Reply: 277

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 10:12 PM 

Kye; Your image #271 shows a cross-section of a chunk of rock. Notice the horizontal bedding planes exposed in what appears to be a fracture face.
That being the case, the "chicken tracks" extend downward thru the rock OR are they just on the surface of this vertical face??


Posts: 5

Reply: 278

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 10:21 PM 

Barsoomer; Stu posted an analglyph #458 of your cracks without berries yesterday and it shows berries in the bottom of those cracks. Surprised


Posts: 3465

Reply: 279

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 11:13 PM 

sol 2608 ( mat 26, 2011 ) high contrast 3D of the surface of "Valdivia":

This surface will be quite interesting with the MI.


Posts: 344

Reply: 280

PostPosted: May 27, 2011 11:35 PM 

Ben, I did see Ben's anaglyph. Such a high degree of enhancement creates artifacts. I don't think any of the fine detail in that image is reliable. In particular, the rendering of the "channel" (too rounded to be called a crack) is unreal, making it appear like a deep chasm into the bowels of the earth with walls of piled dark spherules.

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