On the Road Again - volume 5 - Page 20

Previous 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 Next
Author Message
LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 381



PostPosted: February 28, 2010 9:59 PM 

testing

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 382



PostPosted: February 28, 2010 10:07 PM 

Wow Bill Harris.

I've been trying to express that idea about a process that could free up water of crystallization for years now and you've done it elegantly and effortlessly. Needless to say, if your idea idea were possible quite large amounts of water would be available for the purposes you suggest as well as (dare I say it?) life.

Winston

serpens


Posts: 169

Reply: 383



PostPosted: February 28, 2010 10:14 PM 

Hi Ben, Can’t argue with that. Possibly the initial fill that cemented berries and other detritus occurred at the first recharge. Following recharges were wicking events over a reasonably short geological timescale which would explain the small crystallisation and thin laminations - although there are other explanations for that so consider my suggestion to include some serious arm waving.

On this thread it does get a wee bit frustrating examining the probable geochemical and erosion processes that caused what we see, only to have similar visual artefacts trotted out a few weeks later with the same comments – ignoring previous explanations - as ’proof’ that berries are some kind of living monoculture (apart from the ones examined that are dismissed as a 'different type of berry').

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 384



PostPosted: February 28, 2010 11:27 PM 

Some interesting rocks from today's releases


Winston


LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 385



PostPosted: February 28, 2010 11:36 PM 

Hi Serpens; Give us the geochemical and erosion processes that created the berry stems that can now be quite clearly viewed in situ in eroding rocks.

Winston

Ben


Posts: 2270

Reply: 386



PostPosted: February 28, 2010 11:48 PM 

Serpen; Yeah, I get a bit tired of splainin the same things over and over. Laughing

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 387



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 12:41 AM 

Winston,

Thanks for your images in #384. Some novel features, but not close enough to get much detail.

I look forward to seeing the Planetary Society's monthly status article about Spirit and Opportunity, which is usually dated the last day of the month. That's today, but we may have to wait until tomorrow to see it posted. We haven't seen the weekly status from the mission itself for almost two weeks, so it will be interesting to catch up.

hortonheardawho


Posts: 3465

Reply: 388



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 2:04 AM 

Panoramas from sol 2167 position.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 389



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 2:20 AM 

In the fourth image of your #384, Winston, the middle rock has considerable crust on a planar face, and the crust drapes onto a leyered face. One piece of the crust on the top face has several protrusions.

The roughly pyramidal rock to its left has a narrow planar face that seems to be entirely crust. If a piece broke off here, it must have been a tiny piece.

The large rock at the bottom middle looks like we are seeing it in its pre-impact orientation with its top planar face appearing to be typical Meriani pavement. There are berries seen on this face, but I cannot see it well enough to tell if there is any crust. This rock has lots of vertical cracks that are clearly seen in the side face. It also shows a few angled and horizontal cracks in the same side. Some of the vertical cracks meet cracks in the top face.

There is a weird-looking small rectangular rock near the top right.

Nowhere in this scene do we see a "mate" for any of the encrusted faces, i.e., another rock with a crusted face that looks like it broke off along the crust.

Barsoomer


Posts: 344

Reply: 390



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 3:01 AM 

The rock near the top middle of this image looks like it has a face that would rival the hair of Medusa. Pity there is no R image for a stereo pair.

Serpens


Posts: 169

Reply: 391



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 6:36 AM 

Winston, already been discussed in this thread by Ben, Bill and myself. So forgive me if I don’t waste my time as I suspect only a few pages down-stream you would just post another picture of a fungus , lichen or stromalite and then make the same request. Sad

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 392



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 8:34 AM 

Barsoomer; Don't hold your breath waiting for a discussion on the putative anomalous aspects of the concepcion images on the Planetary Society Update. Emily et al will do like practically all the geologists and totally ignore those areas, (like the berry stems which could cast a new light on past explanations of the berry diagenesis if fully examined,) or shoehorn them into current dogma.

Serpens; I see no good reason why I should accept, hook, line and sinker all the explanations you and the other geologists give for phenomena on the surface of Mars when you clearly do not even see, far less take into consideration, the minutiae in the images. I accept some of your explanations, but reserve the right to change that view if further images or facts suggest otherwise. A case in point is the berries. I accepted essentially that they were concretions that might perhaps have some biological component around which they might have formed but the images here of in situ stems within the rocks and therefore not explainable by your wind tail theory, made it possible that some of the berries might be intimate parts of a biological entity. I think that fracture fill can explain part of what we are seeing on the rocks of concepcion but I reserve the right to point out that some of it looks very much like lichen bodies. It might be fracture fill indeed but there is a possibility, however remote, that it might not be.

What I've been trying to do is propose an alternative to dry as dust geological dogmas that someday might be disproven or corroborated when better equipped remote labs get to meridiani. It might not be good for the esteem of geologists if such a mission finds evidence of life in clear sight and it shows up the scientists of our times as being essentially no better than the priests of the middle ages.

The geologists, unapologetically, don't even look at alternatives. Everything is explainable in their terms as given in their text books with no room for dissent. That isn't how science progresses.

Serpens; You can totally ignore this. Its just my views that don't matter. Don't let it or any other of my posts stop you from giving scholarly explanations of some of the phenomena we see on this blog. Most of what you say is well taken and appreciated.

Winston

Bill Harris


Posts: 72

Reply: 393



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 9:27 AM 

>large amounts of water would be available for the purposes you suggest as well as (dare I say it?) life.

Life will find a way. Who would have thought, 30 or 40 years ago, that volcanic hotspot vents would be commonplace and be prolific niches for life. Instead of cold, sunless abysmal abyssal plains with animals eking out an existence on an organic detrital rain you can have thrivng and diverse biological communities around vents. That is why we gor so excited a few weeks back when we happened upon the chunk of gabbro with a suggestion of serpentization (remember the parable of the Lost City).

All you need is liquid water and oxidized/reduced compounds so that electrons can be tossed about. Without geology, life wouldn't have a dinner table...

--Bill


http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes5/youngfrank72.jpeg

MPJ


Posts: 250

Reply: 394



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 9:43 AM 

LWS, i realy enjoy reading your open minded approaches (just like all the others here) and just want to point out: science dont necessarily have to be the truth (although mostly it is of course) but its all about observation/experiments and consensus. So if the majority of participating scientists (mostly geologists here) says its rock, it is rock - for now...

Its a pity the Rovers are only equiped to literally scratch the surface of Mars and yield more questions than actualy solve i think Smile

Bill Harris


Posts: 72

Reply: 395



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 10:00 AM 

> Hi Ben, Can’t argue with that. Possibly the initial fill that cemented berries and other detritus occurred at the first recharge. Following recharges were wicking events over a reasonably short geological timescale which would explain the small crystallisation and thin laminations - although there are other explanations for that so consider my suggestion to include some serious arm waving.


Nothing wrong with that. Arm-waving and brainstorming is all a part of the hypothesis decision tree. You have to throw out ideas for consideration before tossing them to the rubbish heap. We are starting to get a lot of puzzle pieces that may fit. Some do, some don't right now.

Let me sneak in this experiment:

http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes5/youngfrank72.jpeg

--Bill

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 396



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 11:13 AM 

Bill;

Glad to see you realize that geology and biology is a continuum. Actually, a seamless continuum. I suspect that geology doesn't only provide food for those microbes we now recognize but for numerous others which we still have to discover.

I like your soapbox analogy except that it is anapposite to the situation here. I suspect you can't see the beam in your collective eyes just the large mote in mine.

Winston

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 397



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 11:14 AM 

Bill;

Glad to see you realize that geology and biology is a continuum. Actually, a seamless continuum. I suspect that geology doesn't only provide food for those microbes we now recognize but for numerous others which we still have to discover.

I like your soapbox analogy except that it is inapposite to the situation here. I suspect you can't see the beam in your collective eyes just the large mote in mine.

Winston

Kevin Author Profile Page



Posts: no

Reply: 398



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 11:59 AM 

It's that old devil called money again, the instruments are avaiable on Earth but wether they get a chance to fly on MSL is another story.

http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3401/detecting-our-martian-cousins

LWS


Posts: 3062

Reply: 399



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 12:36 PM 

Some possibly detached fracture fill from sol 2157. I am making absolutely no claims that this in any way resembles a lichen form.



Winston

mann


Posts: 161

Reply: 400



PostPosted: March 1, 2010 2:41 PM 

Hi ya'll.
I'm here everyday Winston, first thing last thing i do.

The thing i like the most is when, someone makes a visual comparision, such as, Winstons comparisions to the fill/ melt? to looking like iron coated lichen.

The stuff looks folious, so please, can someone like the guy attacking Winston, post an image of some fracture fill, that looks LEAFY? I doubt he will.
That might be because, if you filled up a crack in sandstone, say with wax, or mortar, both sides would pick up the texture of the sandstone. In this case, the fill should show the layers, maybe even adivot or two from berries.

So, is there something growing in the cracks? is it being replaced with iron?

This folious platy material, has been seen time and again, since early soils, i'll show you when i have time.

Found some cool stuff on the berries also, showing the tube making bacteria, with the tiny tip of carbon on the end. Looks like the berries and stem, have earthly conterparts also.

Previous 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 Next


Join the conversation:















Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised
Shocked Confused Cool Laughing
Mad Razz Embarassed Crying or Very Sad
Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
Powered by MTSmileys