A very serious issue with UMSF

Hello, fellow bloggers. I've rarely posted here in the past. But I'm aware that some of you have had your personal trouble with Doug Ellison, a so called space expert.

I've had some conflicts with him. In fact, some of my contributions have pleased the staff, according to their words. I've posted various information about Russian space program, including photos from MAKS 2009, info about Koronas-Foton, Chandrayaan-1 (that's Indian mission), etc.

But today things went out of control. There was a thread about a possible Phoenix revival. A message posted by a member, apparently working at NASA/JPL claimed that Odyssey sent signals to Phoenix, then waited to hear back. I tried to tell the person he may be wrong (after all, according to an article on a credible news site stated that Odyssey was only listening, not actually trying to communicate). I told him very carefully: "Excuse me, but you may be wrong". Less than 10 minutes I got a message from Douglas Ellison, entitled "FINAL WARNING". He accused me of being rude.

So, this is the first issue. Douglas was obviously lying. This is a defamation and he knew that.

Then I asked him what's wrong with "Excuse me". No reply.

After all, I carefully thought about the situation and decided to end my relationship with UMSF and Doug Ellison. I sent a PM entitled: "Please, deregister my account". I also asked him to remove or lock some of my threads in which I've dedicated much of my free time.

Instead of this, I got permanently banned. No deactivation. My personal information is still there. This includes: contact information, instant message service accounts and, most seriously, an avatar which is a photo of me.

I sent an email to Doug Ellison: "Please, respect my wishes". I told him that I no longer wish my personal information to be there.

No reply.

What can I do? Being offensive is something I can accept. But my account is suspended and my personal information is still there. I told him I'm no longer giving him the right to keep it on his website. This could be considered a copyright issue.

I have had no email from you. Your avatar, contact details and IM numbers have been removed.

I notice that you fail to mention the 3 years history of administrator and moderator intervention that has had to take place with your posts. You fail to mention the politics you often attempt to post at UMSF, an explicitly banned subject. You fail to mention the constant barrage of posting conspiratorial posts regarding the RSA, again, explicitly banned.

I am not the only admin at UMSF, I am not the only admin you have had discussions with, I am not the only admin who has had to edit or delete your posts to keep you inline with the forum rules and I am not the only admin at UMSF who has asked you to change your posting style.

For three years you failed to acknowledge and follow the requests of the administrative team. That you decided to throw your toys out of the pram left us no option but to follow your request and permanently suspend your account.

You have been an administrative headache from the day you registered, your departure is a relief.

FYI, Marc Lemmon is not ' apparently working at NASA/JPL' - he is at Texas A&M and has worked on many flight projects including Phoenix.

Furthermore - I have never described myself as a 'so called space expert'. I describe myself as a space enthusiast.

I fully expected a thread like this to appear, in this place, after you decided to leave. I also fully expected you to miss out the detailed history of how and why we came to this point. You did not disappoint on either front.

Well done.

---Your avatar, contact details and IM numbers have been removed.---

No. They haven't been removed:

http://img197.imageshack.us/i/snapshotumsf.png/

This is my latest reload just a second ago.

Amazing how this site turns into a place for others to wash their linen in public, even better have more success posting here than regulars while Mark sorts out our happy, quirky and very interesting site.

Mark a request please can we create a new category called Mars Rover Hague? Then all UMSF punch up's can take place there.

"No. They haven't been removed:"

Yes. They have.

Your profile is empty of any and all details
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showuser=1124

Any posts you have made will contain the same avatar...i.e. nothing.

Never known someone be an admin headache after they've left before. Extra awesome.

Doug, please take your management style back to your Forum Management forum. I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but having given you the bum's rush years ago, I don't want to hear it here. Thus far, it's almost getting to the point that the people who refuse to post at your site are outnumbering those who do.

Maybe we can merge this with the earlier thread?

[link]

--Bill

Now they have been removed. Thanks. ISSUE SOLVED!

I'm thankful you followed my request and deactivated my account. However, this is a lie:

"You have been an administrative headache from the day you registered, your departure is a relief."

This is a lie. Only two threads in a same day/hour got deleted - the day I registered. After that none of my comments got deleted for the next year and a half - two years. You also said I've caused trouble on another forum, but didn't specify which one. This was obviously another lie, because I've never registered on other space boards (except on actually ONE particular board under a different nickname).

So you continue making up stories. BRAVO!

Troubles started after I had some quarrels with an Indian supporting Chandrayaan-1. You know this. We have exchanged some PMs and he told me he's going to start a blog.

Wanna know the untold story? Before giving me a final warning, my last warning was that I criticized a particular person posting a copyrighted image. Then I apologized to this PARTICULAR person and do you know what he wrote to me: "I have trouble with the moderation - I always worry when I post here".

---I also fully expected you to miss out the detailed history of how and why we came to this point. ----

I know the detailed history very well... Now you're losing another person interested in the activities of RSA. Just like you lost Bruce and Don. BRAVO!

Other lies:

-----constant barrage of posting conspiratorial posts regarding the RSA-----

This is not a constant barrage. There was ONE conspiracy theory suggested in the Koronas-Foton thread. And ANOTHER one sent personally to YOU. Which I thought will be interested to YOU, because I trusted YOU. This is not actually a conspiracy theory - but a theory that's just a hypothesis which is supported by other well respected people. Some have worked for space agencies.

----You fail to mention the politics you often attempt to post at UMSF, an explicitly banned subject.----

Another pure and utter lie. I attempted it to mention only ONCE, in K-F thread. I was not causing trouble when the Manned Spaceflight was closed.

So yes - you see the coin has two sides. I know you will never admit you're wrong.

That's it.

Dobro pozhalovat Zdezdichko.

All of us who had similar encounters with Doug sympathize with you.

You, of course, are factually correct about the passive role in the attempts to contact Phoenix.

But that is of no matter. "The Space Nazi" ( ala Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi" ( no soup for you! ) ) - runs his board with an iron fist. And with him there is no velvet glove. One strike and you're out!

Last year I too asked that my UMSF account be removed over an issue with a "warning" he had sent me - and in my case he simply "banned" me without removing the account

A week ago I received a notification from UMSF that I had an e-mail from one of the other members - but was unable to read the message. I politely e-mailed Doug asking him to inform the UMSF members that banned members can not access the mail system. He has not replied - nor as far as I can determine informed the UMSF members.

Ah well.

You are welcome to post anything space related here.

You might be ignored, you will be challenged, you may find the chaos maddening - but you will be free to speak your mind.

I have no understanding of people who forge shackles for free minds and question the sanity of free people who choose shackles over freedom.

UMSF members throw off your shackles! No soup is so good that you have to submit to a tyrant.

Doug - will you please remove my sci degree in the signature. This is the last that remains.

Bill,

I wish I didn't have to post here, I really really do. But when someone comes here and spews out the innocent-victim routine and misses out that vast majority of the facts, and gets some stuff just down right wrong , I'm afraid I AM going to correct them.

Believe me - I don't want to here it here either. There are many many ways Zvezdichko could have got in touch - indeed at the end of the very thread here you cite, is my email address, loud and clear for anyone to get in touch. He could have pinged me on Twitter. He could have done all manor of things but he decided the best course of action was to post his diatribe here.

The only time I actually point people this way is when they are clearly trying to discuss things at UMSF that are far far better suited to being discussed here - the anomalistic, the strange, the unusual, the 'against the mainstream'. If it's somewhere between the two - I point them towards BAUT.

I've never said "You're banned, oh, and by the way, Mark's forum is the best place to go and moan about it". It just happens. There's not a great deal I can do about it. For what it's worth, I'm sorry it happens (half a dozen times or so it must have been) - but I don't really see what I can do about it.

Doug

Wow Hort you got blog cred Man and some previous, respect !

What on Mars did you do? Say something logical? Honest? Straight to the point? with humour? Tut tut.

Thanks for the supprt, hortonheardawho ...

Actually, I'm a conservative - after all I've been trained to be a scientist. I usually don't support conspiracy theories (regardless of the fact Doug tried to make me look like a conspiracy nut). I believe in the Moon landings, I am sure Hoagland's theories are silly.

Doug is just unable to understand that discussing Russian space program (Especially the older Soviet space program) without mentioning politics is actually impossible. So yes- there may be/have been political pressure. Yes- there may be information mishap - in each case I try to provide links to credible sources.

---Believe me - I don't want to here it here either. There are many many ways Zvezdichko could have got in touch - indeed at the end of the very thread here you cite, is my email address, loud and clear for anyone to get in touch. He could have pinged me on Twitter.----

I did it... I posted a PM in which I begged you to deregister my account. Then it was only suspended, not deregistered. I wrote then to your e-mail published on UMSF. These are facts....

----But when someone comes here and spews out the innocent-victim routine and misses out that vast majority of the facts, and gets some stuff just down right wrong , I'm afraid I AM going to correct them.----

You have a history of making up stories. Don't you remember gil's thread? Check it. So yes... Yet, I defended UMSF back then and it was BECAUSE I didn't want to trust what other people said here. Well, I was silly. The coin has two sides. Now I know the other side pretty well.

So yes- the simple fact is that you told me I was rude. That's not true. I tried to correct the man very carefully.

----Believe me - I don't want to here it here either. There are many many ways Zvezdichko could have got in touch - indeed at the end of the very thread here you cite, is my email address, loud and clear for anyone to get in touch. He could have pinged me on Twitter----

And I did it. I wrote a PM, then I sent you an e-mail. Looks like you both ignored them. And many people here tell us that you have a history of ignoring posts and e-mail messages.

----But when someone comes here and spews out the innocent-victim routine and misses out that vast majority of the facts, and gets some stuff just down right wrong , I'm afraid I AM going to correct them.---

Unfortunately, You have a history of making up stories either. Do you remember Gil's thread? I defended UMSF back them, but it was because I didn't want to believe what other people said was true. Unfortunately, it turned out to be very true

I haven't posted in a couple of years but when I see the self proclaimed space EXPERT come out of his hole I have to break radio silence. What a pompous jerk. He is so in love with himself and has such delusions of grandeur he needs years of therapy. Go away Doug. Stay in your little kingdom.

John: Well, this is rude. I usually refrain from hateful comments. I don't hate Doug. I still hope we serve the same purpose - promoting space exploration.

But I'm not sure if he has science education. I'm a biologist. A molecular biologist, actually. I know about another well-respected biologist that thinks UMSF isn't such a great place some may think. Doug will know who I'm talking about, but I won't mention names.

Sometimes you really need some science education in order to promote space exploration properly.

Zvezdichko, full support. Post here, join our great staff. This forum is a silent place, focused, with a few very qualified contributors. And a new contributor from Europe sounds great, as I'm from Norway...

Thanks for your support. Anyway, what purpose does this forum serve? Who is Mark Carey and for how long he works on the site?

I see you have a Biology section. Do you have specialists here who know how to work with peer reviewed papers?

And ... what about pseudoscience? Is this place free from it?

No, no, no!

The whole point of this site is to freely discuss things "out there" without rancor.

Doug is as free as anyone else to say what he pleases here about the universe. That is what distinguishes his site from this one.

Comments about the personalities of the commenters only detract from our quest for knowledge and promote destructive chaos.

In the spirit of that remark, I would like to apologize to Doug for the "Space NAZI" remark.

Sometimes my humor gets in the way of my good sense. ( Actually, most of the time. )

Although the remark is funny - if you are a fan of Seinfeld humor - it is not if you think you are being compared to a member of the National Socialist German Workers Party.

SO, can we all get back to figuring out what's going on "out there"?

Now... about the roughness of the bedrock near the crater Conception...

Ah... I see.

BTW I still seek the banned Bruce Moomaw. I regularly read his interesting threads on UMSF - those one who still haven't got culled. Do you have any idea where he may be?

And I meant "silent" as a "friendly" place. Well, the crater you mentioned Horton...