Animals in Bounce Rock?

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danajohnson







PostPosted: April 4, 2004 5:58 PM 

In the photo above two animal type objects appear at the upper left corner in a crevace and a smaller on the right side.

The objects are semi-hemispheric, with two bottom lobes (upside down in this photo).
These match the skullcap shape in the sol059 photo at the surface.

They also match the shapes of many of the stone pieces on the surface in a weathered condition.

The look like an animal. Very non-geological appearance.

Anonymous


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PostPosted: April 4, 2004 6:00 PM 

Please clean this up and delete two of these entries.

scidude


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PostPosted: April 4, 2004 9:45 PM 

i think if i posted a picture of this with all the things circled that i believe to be of biological origin - nothing would be visible but circle marks..

let me repost a link of this pic to my area:

definitely visible in the upper middle are groups of tubes sticking out - about 20 or so are visible. something like tube sponge comes to mind. but they're so small - tubes in the .002 to .007 mm diameter range? then what?? if anyone can't locate them i'll happily circle them - but they're easier to find than waldo..

one last for sure thing-- my eyes are going bad staring at this stuff. but it's so damn fascinating - and definitive - at least in my mind...


scidude


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PostPosted: April 5, 2004 1:33 AM 

of course this is mars and i got my units wrong (actually the decimal place).. sorry - tube size is .2 to .7 mm -- still my point is this stuff is small.. if you count pixels it works out as .03 mm/pixel unzoomed.. posting sizes i think helps put the visual and physical in perspective..


danajohnson


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PostPosted: April 5, 2004 9:46 PM 

I agree that the items we see are predominately smaller than what we would expect on Earth. These various plant or fungal, and animal or insect, objects are if truly living or formerly living things, able to provide the resources and numbers to match the challenge.
It's amazing that on Earth we still can't show similar 'fossils' ever had organic material in them, and we can't prove the former living quality of 'fossils' from the Cambrian and Pre-Cambrian ages. This would be most of Earth history- 4 1/2 billion to 600 million years previous. The organic material has left the 'fossil' shapes on Earth for chemical and decay related reasons apparently.
Here on Mars may be the first opportunity to find remnants of objects similar in shape and function, either as fossils with possible better preservation conditions, or as living objects still functioning in a low-oxygen atmosphere as was presumed to exist on Earth during those geologic ages.
I am particularly interested in why these objects are so very similar to Earth objects of those ancient times. The source could be mutual(external to both planets or part of a mutual assembly of planetary material) or it could be that as on Earth most constructions biologically are required to follow relatively limited patterns in shape and chemistry, causing an appearance overlapping and non-contactual mirroring.
I will present tomorrow a few similar named Earth fossils, but there is much of the shape of these in Bounce rock which is not seen- my observations of the sameness of the sol 059 skull-shaped shell is based on the approach from one side only in each. The same is true of the pieces amoung the rocks from sol 056-
8D

which in the lower left corner shows a piece with two parallel tubules on the bottom, and the two lobed side recesses with a central triangular ribbed shape at the front center. My presumption is that the far side of the stone is rounded. That is a serious weakness in the association of the two objects.
In the two lobed tubules that pass through Bounce rock

8D

there are characteristics of a two lobed deposit or two parallel cylinders that form, mirroring the shape of the possible fossil I was noticing in this topic subject.
I see also in the solid features that are either fossil shapes, material movement within the solid mass of the rock in some areas, or fill within what was voids, a two lobed set of parallel cylinders in many.
Some look segmented, as in a fungus or plant.

I was of the impression this object was not a plant part but rather a burrowing insect.

I still haven't seen an example of the object with the two lobes exposed and not removed from the 'shell' .

I am suprised that only a few photos in focus were taken of such an intersting stone. Obviously it should be fully photographed, and measured.

Ralphw


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PostPosted: April 5, 2004 10:19 PM 

what the heck is this?

kinda reminds me of one of those stick bugs....walkingstick i think they are called

randy


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PostPosted: April 5, 2004 11:44 PM 

looks like part of the impression of the circular lens/thing that presses the soil down

scidude


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PostPosted: April 5, 2004 11:45 PM 

Hey Ralph- you always have to watch out for that damn mossbauer depression circle.. that's what that is- always be on the look out for these little rovers contaminating the pics..

chaosman


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PostPosted: April 6, 2004 1:46 AM 


Hello,

is it just me or is there something on the right/lower right in this:

image that looks like some kind of "fabric" is covering the stone ?

mann


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PostPosted: April 6, 2004 2:23 AM 

holy cow,I sure see it. what the heck? I'm gonna check different angles of this. nice find.

scidude


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PostPosted: April 6, 2004 11:31 AM 

it's not just you-- right to lower right i see items root like - cobweb like - plus surface deposits that look lichen/moss like..

Ralphw


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PostPosted: April 6, 2004 8:19 PM 

as far as my image goes I agree its nothing....

but this is very interesting

chaosman


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PostPosted: April 7, 2004 1:37 AM 


Any geological explanations on this ?

gray


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PostPosted: April 7, 2004 5:05 PM 

chaosman,
This feature is being discussed in at least three threads I think. It's a very unusual structure that you've found. Here's what I posted in a different thread:

"Millerite, which is a nickel sulfide, will sometimes form "whikers" or fibrous structures. See the image on the right here:

http://www.element51.com/millerite.pair.30.htm

But the features in "bounce" look different."

Ralphw


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PostPosted: April 7, 2004 5:23 PM 

this stuff seems to go down the side of this rock like moss or a root mat

danajohnson


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PostPosted: April 7, 2004 9:54 PM 

I found it difficult to determine what this rock passed through while in the making and setting on the surface.
Probably an impact rock thrown there. There is some appearance of heat and shock, both in the material in several of the photos showing movement as a fluid or quasifluid, or the shapes could have been dominated by the fossil patterns that formed and were solidified in the sediment.
The strange thing about this stone is that it was almost solid, and caries 3D fossil type patterns throughout in free standing display-indicating a rapid deposition burial without crushing or layering. That is unusual
on this planet. Heavy ash filtering through water is about the only thing I could think of. This stone does not look like ash turned to a sedimentary rock, even if the silica gel it produced were in a thick suspension.

On part of the rock there are three stress fractures running lower left to upper right. The 'fossil' patterns which could be flowing material and lines of movement are running perpendicular in a complex pattern and show turbulence at the peripheries of movement. That indicates the material was impacted, or shocked, and the resultant material was melted simultaneously and forced away from the direction of the force. That shock of the rock was a single occurance I believe. I suspect this is from a distance and perhaps from Endurance, or another crater. I believe the stress was greater than a volcanic caldera but I don't have the training to know that.
The source of the stone does not preclude it being fossiliferous and it may be the most valuable stone Opportunity has photographed.
The dark material and the webbing are interesting and the if you look carefully in the dark areas between the webbing you can see sprays, or acicular radiating needles of crystalline material from most of the openings exposing the surface below the light colored webbing. Some of the non-webbed areas show botryoidal dark shapes which in some also have radiating aricular needles of a slightly lighter color than the spheres. Two appear to have a 'pit'.
The stone in the upper left recess, 3" down and 4" from the left, appears to haev several of the shapes which I had discussed in another topic thread. The 'stick bug' appearance is very unusual on Earth, and in this photo with the crystalline material all around, it leads me to think that the material is possibly a metal or mineral growth which does not occur here on Earth. The differences in mineralogy would produce some uniqueness with such different basic environment conditions.
Normally metals and minerals will not produce a straight line offset by perpendicular straight lines in large number and with regular fixed spacing, especially with the knobby ends that are seen in this example.
These 'stick figures' are looking identical to those I saw in the soil around the stone in

+++++++ = -X-X-X- = ???

the topic 'Sol 068 Plant Shape' and that photo has become even stranger with repeated inspection. There are a half dozen of the stick bug shapes in the photo standing above the surface, a half dozed pedestal and vertical post shapes ending in a sphere or knob, and a few other oddities.
In the plant stick figures, the locations by pixel are:

X: 267,316 Y: 37,40
X: 348,361 Y: 380,363
X: 704,735 Y: 140,144
X:160,180 Y: 950,916

Plants or Metals ?

There are also in the Tuffa ash drapery photos two beetle shapes that look like flying beetles with structural shapes similar to the two I referenced in this topic thread.
Regardless as to whether these are fossils they are so close in appearance as to suprise me. There are now three or four in the two photos to study.

I also noticed the rotini type corkscrew object in the Bounce rock and it resembles the previous from the crater.

scidude


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PostPosted: April 8, 2004 12:20 AM 

Dana - after very closely examining your finds, it's my belief that there is at least one - maybe several - different lichens in your indicated locations.. i believe all the items you've pointed to are growing from decaying or altered berries. given that lichen are a symbiotic relation to fungi - this makes for another interesting and supporting analog. a symbiotic combination from fungi and photosynthetic bacteria (or algae) create a lichen organism.. all the items pointed to and discussed have similar terrestrial forms.. looking more, i can see several other altered/old/different looking berries that exhibit this growth as well. on bounce, the items described as fabric/cobweb and tubular also have terrestrial lichen analogs.. after looking at 1000's of berries and outcrop pictures at eagle i never once saw this additional activity- so i think i was guilty of discounting this at first - was leaning to contamination from the ratting process.. something is different about this location tho - i'm wondering if it's maybe a shaded (uv protected) area next to bounce?. it's all very interesting--- i think a great find!!

um3k


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PostPosted: April 8, 2004 4:14 PM 

Am I the only one who sees a broken shell down and to the left of center in this image?

There is definitely something there, though not necessarily biological in origin.

marsman


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PostPosted: April 12, 2004 4:48 PM 

The fibrous fabric (webs) covering the rock look very much like a fungus to me.

Ralphw


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PostPosted: April 12, 2004 7:57 PM 

weird stuff in that pic

Ralphw


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PostPosted: April 12, 2004 8:06 PM 

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