Causes of Scaled Patterns on Mars

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Author Message
Dana Johnson







PostPosted: February 3, 2009 3:38 PM 

In the HiRISE images there are many repetitious patterns and shapes of physical objects, over short and long distances, and, between varied sizes, even rather extreme size scaling.
This is PSP_001432_2610, a recent HiRISE release.
The first view is a 1 to 1 size image, with the magnified subimage insert found at the diagonal center of the inset position. The smaller shape is aligned to the larger full bright material and ice patch as it exists. The main image was rotated to orient these to your view, but the two items are as they occur in nature on Mars.
I'll add some examples of this oriented size scaled repeats in this image and others of this 'natural' pattern.
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The 4 to 1 size view of the smaller 'fish' shaped item as it looks within the patch without magnification.
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Wind, sunlight, crystalline,crystallographic, or chemical causes for repetitious shaping on Mars at varied scale of size?
Can the origin of these in extreme cyclic cold be the cause of ordered shaping at varied scales?

Location:
x=17040
y=23600
sharpened to 2.2. sizes are 1 to 1, and 4 to 1, resp.
rotation= -86.1

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 1



PostPosted: February 4, 2009 10:32 AM 

As most who have tried the IAS JP2 image file viewer are now aware, this viewer allows a selective color balance and band filtration of the several available color bands on color JP2 images. I used above a slightly blue heavy set of minimum and maximum figures for the two small JPEG images at the topic image pair.
Below is a single image with the figures for te full Dynamic Range set to maximum both high and low tones, to give an accurate view of the HiRISE site full image detail, and to show the basic color balance as the site issues the larger JP2 files. In using the IAS viewer from ITT, the viewer will normally be set for a 'automatic' color and tonal range balance fixed with a preset formulae, or the manual settings can be accessed to adjust the images for a planned effect.
Below I have set the three color bands for actual frequency bans, IR, Red, and Blue/Green, to the full available maximum measured pixel brightness range as the viewer reads in the small area of the displayed JPEG image. The 'white balance' effect is lost in the image here, as the bands, lighting, and other interacting limitations of the source image are shown from darkest pixels at the black appearance level to the brightest pixels as the white setting. The resulting image has a warm balance towards yellow tinting, or a blue deficiency, and most all detail appears to be present. This is where I view most all images when scanning them for basic content.
I make adjustments to small saved sections such as this bright patch with the ice and patterned ground material in the bright patch area, changing the color and dynamic range of appearance to give a more effective selection of information in showing particular spots or objects, and at times to show selected bandwidth information in narrow brightness range subsets. Any time you see a image which is less than the total informational values, you should seek the actual HiRISE site page link foir the original images, the IAS or other supplied JP2 file type image viewer, and take a closer look at the inage areas in the full or manually selected DR and color balance perspectives as they are offered for public recording and viewing.
I can make some of the images available online here for your viewing within your selected preferences at times when I am responding to the entries at marsroverblog,com,within a few days time, or, you can obtain the viewer and access the image file originals to produce the smaller images on your own computer for your convenience and detailed requirements. It is very educational to try the viewing of the originals once you have set up the few free software downloads available from the HiRISE and linked sites. I always will try to be accurate when altering aspects of the images, as there is a greast variation of selective detail available in the originals. Not all the details are seen, and at times, completely alternative information, can be seen in variations of the controlled bands and dynamic range figure settings present in the viewer conttrols. The technique of providing a wide range of viewing information gives a very low contrast range and often an imbalanced 'white balance' figure in the full range views where the settings are as I present below in this small section. I can set the figures even wider to show the image as subset of the full dynamic range the viewer can display, but the figures here represent the image details set from the image brightness as measured within the frame area seen, as white to black. A high contrast image might require an even more bland and off balanced view to show some highlight or shadow detail in some lighting situations.
I presented this to give a prespective on the satellite viewas it is, versus the range of views we can produce, and the narrow range we use when showing aspects of each small viewed section.
There is always a potential for greater information than that seen in any image, and there are many alternative views which are available, or which could be available, if the software and instrument sensors were taking the information for our use.
If you can, please try the available viewers and the original image files, or the supplied lower resolution HiRISE site interpreted images.
A few of the images on each image index page are in proper 'map' viewing orientation, as we would view the scene with the Mars polar coordinates to the vertical alignment.
This is a 1 to 1 scale scene again as at the topic image, first of the two, and the magnified dune ripples are seen at 4 to 1 in the IAS viewer. I have included a view of the interesting object in a overlain magnified view at 6 to 1 size, or 600% enlargement of the HiRISE maximum normal full resolution setting.
The object seems to be about 11x27 pixels in size at the 1 to 1 view. The object has the greatest contrast range and the greatest brightness of any item seen in the smaller JPEG image area. It does not have the greatest low shadow dark figure, but is about the third from the darkest for a shadow dark figure.
The item stands out in contrast range IR, Red band, and combined 3 band color viewing.
The issuance of the lower or frontal viewed extension is apparently translucent, to possibly transparent, as it extends outward across the dark dune ripples.

DR
Viewed colors(sensor frequency as actually viewed)=minimum to maximum recorded of a 1023 max. total at full scale.

Red(IR)=0 to 1023
Green(near IR to red)=0 to 964
Blue(blue/green visual)=0 to 416

size 1 to 1, mag. 4 to 1, and 6 to 1.
sharpened to 2.2
rotated left 86.1 degrees
Taken from the JP2 'color' original, at the HiRISE catalog site overssen by arizona.edu.

Added magnifier view taken from a toolbar I use at times, the VMN toolbar. I cannot make any recommendations about private companies who supply accessory toolbars as I know only that the group at VMN take some site access info about history feedback for use in usage analysis, as do most all the 'free' larger groups who supply toolbars and webmail, site hosting and other services to the public. The toolbar seems to work well, and I haven't noticed any security challenges from the various adware, anti-virus/security, and malware scans I run routinely. The magnifier has extended capabilities and is part of a suite of tools for technical use. User descrection recommended. Read all info on everything on the Web before using any services.
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vk3ukf


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PostPosted: February 8, 2009 9:39 AM 

Hi Dana, very interesting images.
When I see patterns like this, I think of dried mud cracking. Judging from the size of the dunes around the area, the tiles in the pattern are very large, this makes me think it is possibly an example of exposed bedrock that is being eroded. I am also thinking that similar patterns on a much smaller scale are visible on the rover surface images at cetain locations. I would also lean toward heating and cooling as the main causes for such patterns, I would like to see if there is a fractal resemblance here. Are there smaller tiles within the tiles?

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 3



PostPosted: February 8, 2009 12:36 PM 

I spent the past week assembling a dual 24" monitor setup here for my viewing. It is really a substantial improvement for these satellite images, and landscapes in general. I haven't even had time to look at a panorama with the wide screen effect as yet.
I am quite happy with the investment. If only we all had a benefactor background process for everyone to be able to have these great combination wide screen views.
I can see 3200x1200 currently. I am sure some have much larger screen viewing capabilities. My color balance will improve with some work on the monitor balance, with additional software incorporation.
Yes, vk3ukf, I can see that the assemblies are of more than one source process, and not all as yet seen or understood in sum. We will have to go there to know the total sum of the Martian mysteries. I can see much of the information in the satellite closeups, but we are looking at sciences best efforts to date, and we can't see human sized items with any detail. This means we are averaging and combining the figures and views for many common human vision and chemistry judgement type objects which we know will be smaller than a human in size of deposits and shaping.
At this size scale we are seeing the weather scaled events combining with the basic chemistry, astrophysical, and tectonic actions. I find the 2x and 4x viewing to be somewhat confusing, but very busy with large solid appearing items exposed on dunes we think of as a mass of particulates. Finding the items the size of humans to large trucks lying on the surface of these 'dunes' is an aspect of the surprising content in the scaled organized patterns.
The 'V' pattern of gully alcoves, post collapse, matches the dune crest fractures 'A' incised pre-collapse reach into the pre-gully areas in some HiRISE images. Collapse of the narrow gullies gives a mirror of the basic shapes of masses and patterns.
What intrigued me most was the suggestive resemblance to living object structuring in the patterns which were repeated along various dunes. We think of fossilization as an incorporation of minerals and chemicals into the living object in substitution of organic and chemical materials. In these bright deposits which are found between the 'dunes', we are finding assemblies which are resembling living objects at a large size range, and if the process were capable in reverse, we might find the objects assembled as organic structures based upon whatever detailed crystalline and other organization exists as we see them fairly detailed and faithful to our recognition as suggestive shapes. How much detailed patterning occurs in these dune and bright material assemblies will be a story for later satellites and landers to show us.
With some rotations and reorientation of landmarks here are a few of the gullies in repeat display, with the HiRISE site 'new' dune slide as a centerpiece. The mirroring is clear, and the repetitious gully alcove formations have both bright formation displayed effects of the 'dunes', and the newest addition slide showing how a very well regulated physical process can form a very suggestive later bright material consolidated mineral or chemistry(active?) formation resembling a Earth life type structure in basics.
There are five or more examples of patterned occurrence here at varied stages and degrees of orderliness.
Best viewed on a smaller screen at both full size and about 25-30%, or full width.
We have been told that the bright material patterns are caused by ices and possibly water in transience, ie., permafrost alteration. This is actually a substantial material transformation/alteration with possible 'rime' frost/ice assistance, and other unidentified additional activity.
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View is 1 to 1 size, sharpened to 5.0, in the IAS viewer.
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In the circumstance, aligned with sun, and possibly other weather related factors, such as in seasonal wind.
Are these manufactured by the presence of water, specifically liquid water, or transitioning water?

Ben


Posts: 2036

Reply: 4



PostPosted: February 8, 2009 1:16 PM 

Dana; IMHO the resolution does not allow more than guessing as to what you are looking at except for the "dune slide" which is quite clear and coincident with earthly ,gravity induced features.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 5



PostPosted: February 8, 2009 1:20 PM 

To give a better example of the same organized processes in combined effect, here is a cropped and rotated similarity in the prior topic image from my 'Mars On The Wings Of Time' topic. I suggested with the image that the recognition of items in patterned content were not a matter of chance, and the resemblance to Earth type living objects is at source not a matter of coincidence.
Ordered patterns are one of the conditioning aspects of our active biology on Earth. Did the process become smaller and therefore very complex at human size scale as a result of the actions of water as a solvent only? Will we find on Mars that we are faced with a great number of displayed smaller scale repeats as well?
Can life be patterned after simple geologic and mineral/environmental processes?

Perhaps the two items of geology and biology cannot be disassociated in appearances even in the most stressful of environments.
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Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 6



PostPosted: February 8, 2009 3:47 PM 

A jump to a closeup of the newer dune slide activity from the HiRISE index page for the originals. PSP_010546_2615.
I agree with you Ben, the resolution of the imaging doesn't allow a firm ID of the items in the 4x closeups. I can see many intriguing items along the slide path. The objects have distinct qualities, but lack detail.
There is a repeat of the linear rod-like objects throughout the HiRISE images. All variety of length and strength of materials is displayed. These are not at all like anything I have ever seen in a geology scene on Earth, especially at this size scale. If these were rock items they would not have the tensile strength to be erect and unsupported in large number, they would not remain in stable not weathered condition in equal exposure to the surrounding weathered matrix, and they would not on Earth appear in this number as geological items.
The bright solid items in the slide gully do not appear as bright material anywhere along the upper dune surfaces. They do have the brightness of the bright lower elevation deposits. The items may be ice or related internal dune materials from lodes in the dunes, and that may explain why the bright deposits form only in the lowest elevations as separate exposures. It appears to require a major dune slide to build the bright deposits, perhaps. The bright materials which are discussed as dust, may be a material which is sourced entirely from the dune internal structure, or from the margin layer at the near sub-surface of the upper dune.
I can see a bright separation layer between the darker blue dune upper surface and the main internal dune body.
I'll present an image of the brighter materials which separate from the dune face slide debris fans. Nearby examples of dune faces show the bright material is in motion possibly along the lower dune base areas near the bright masses. The assembly of bright material appears to be slowly accumulating horizontally after migrating through the debris fan bulk masses. The slides may be one method of movement. Would there be any other method/path of movement? Can hoarfrost reorganization perform a substantial horizontal transport in a sublimating environment?
I made this first example to discuss the many concentric circular features in the lower dune areas, as these do not occur in any number in the upper dune layers. I altered the upper right corner of this 4x section to show the nearby circles which are not within the bright material in this case.
The tusk shaped objects are quite large and long to have survived the slide. Items that large are not found on the upper dune surfaces. The other large boulder(truck)sized items are in large number on the slide upper surface, only within and related to the slide debris fan.
The pattern is very regular, and symmetric.
The pattern matches all other examples here.
All that is required now is for an active mineralization, consolidation, or, some other active chemistry/mineral processes to convert this example into another bright deposit extension.
I have as yet to find a repeated and overlapping set of more than one 'facial' pattern in each bright assembly area.
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The example of bright material which is migrating from the debris fan near the newer slide above.
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Is ice the basis for activity in the materials?
Is sublimation responsible for the various actions?
Does a consolidated material result from the bright material deposits?
Are the various barrel shaped tubular structures in the area the same items as the very large concentric circular patterns seen at the lowest elevations?
As these materials are fairly new in geological terms possibly, are these actions recent and ongoing, with the bright materials having a interactive relationship with the darker main dune masses. Both dune and bright materials are very interrelated. Are they interactive currently as it appears?
Is the action too prolific to be a mineralogical or permafrost type process?


Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 7



PostPosted: February 8, 2009 4:16 PM 

I should have explained in the prior entry #6 that the red box enlarged section was a 2X sized increase of the spot at the crossed diagonals of the red box as seen. The entire scene was a 1 to 1 scene view.
The larger magnified view was a small section of the dune slide which is presumed to be the most recent major activity in the area. Along the lower descent the small bright objects, several feet across each, are staged as a group, and they are the brightest items in the slide of the loose collection of boulder sized objects now setting on top of the finer debris.
The linear long items are appearing to be darker real objects in some number, but the details are not available.
Can permafrost on Earth produce concentric circular raised semi-spheroidal mounds which show symmetric patterned organization?
These do not look like calcite type crystalline items to me, but I have never seen massive calcite type deposits either. I have seen calcite radial petalled crystals to about 24" diameter, and it may be possible they can get many feet in diameter.
The HiRISE page link for PSP_010546_2615.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 8



PostPosted: February 9, 2009 4:34 AM 

In the matter of the dune slide, and causes for the movement, I prepared this image which is highly altered. This view of the dune face shows much better the apparent cause for movement of ice or solids from the upper dune crest.
The continuous line may record an ice sheet which placed a weight and stress upon the uppermost debris fan. If the outline records a mass of ice leaving the debris fan, it may have weighed upon the upper fan edge, deforming it.
It may be the mirrored shape of this outline has an information value and yet may never have had a contactual physical effect on movement. The area measure is rather large for a sheet of ice.
The various aspects of the two items, the slide, and the outline, seem to be related to the upper debris fan disrupted shape, where weight appears to have made an incursion in the debris fan, yet, it all may be a coincidence.
This continuous pattern is not as visible in the routine view of the dune slide.
Notice that the outline shape and the various bright facial end-piece patterns are similar, as is the alcove shaping in the dune crest recesses.
Three items with close proximity and an apparent related shaping.
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Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 9



PostPosted: February 9, 2009 2:04 PM 

In this image of the slide area I used a contrast and brightness alteration to give a shadow(low or dark tone) protection to the darkest information in the image. I selected the darker upper dune surfaces along the left side, and increased the darkest tone range to allow some detail of the 3D shaping of the surfaces to be seen along with a more normal tonal range in the remaining image area.
The sides of the dunes show a historical record of various movements, processes, and deposition or impact affected spots with margins for some probable ice or other transient activity.
I have marked a few of the zones.
At the lower left is a history of dune assembly or alteration. It is distinctly differing from the routine surface view of the long straight linear pattern we normally see. Much like looking into a geological record-keeping book.
At the upper left is a margined area which may have been an ice sheet or other zone of activity which altered the margin. It is rare to be able to see low contrast variations in the rippled surface. The strongest patterns usually mask to less strong.
It appears to me that the area and shape of the low margined spot is similar to the dune slide upper 'shield' type feature. As the dune slide margined upper feature is the highest relative elevation object when compared to the slide debris fan below it, it may be not correct to compare the dune 'shield' section to the dark top-surface dune margined spot I have marked. I have seen Earth landslides produce stable sections which simply 'rode' the slide intact even though the material was not well consolidated, but the scene would be rare on Earth.
Would Mars have a older slide gully alcove surviving the recent slide? If the difficult to view 'shield' shape was present prior to the recent slide, would the former gully alcove cap of the dune angle downward and retain it's boundary even with the recent movement of material reaching deep into the prior slide material? Perhaps these are closely timed as sequenced slides.
The shield type shape seems to have affected the contact point, with a radial swarm from the point of interaction, and the unusual long linear curved darker objects either being real solid items, or, the possible ice capping the 'shield' shape pressuring materials to appear as solid objects. With all the linear dune,ripple, and other sources for the bright linear formations, I see the dark features as a normal presence, at the lower elevation.
At the slide origin point there are marked a series of arcing fractures which are not at all visible in routine photos.
The arcs match precisely the gully breakaway formation, and the entire structure shows that a process which is a deep dune formation is responsible for the shaping of the gullies. That is a standard knowledge item now for me, as I have seen hundreds of these along gully formation crest dune crest lines. Often the pattern as two angled straight lines forming an inverted 'V' into the dune top surface. These are arcing well rounded and very regular lines, forming a full oval along the upper dune where not lost to the slide.
The formation here is a very well patterned geometric shape.
Ovals and rounded patterns dominate the lower elevations of the dune base outlying areas where the bright material is forming and dissolutioning structures which are very actively crystalline or controlled in the growth patterns. The active zones of the dunes are areas of well ordered content, yet the structures show a residual mounded and resistant toughness to the surrounding environment in many examples.

Simply viewing the scene in this and other views may provide you with the same thoughts, or, you may choose to question my observations, as my own thinking about these is always updated with each new image.
Details about the image are available if requested. These were all sourced from the large JP2 IRB files, with this one highly altered. A link for the source image is at the reply #7 above.
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Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 10



PostPosted: February 9, 2009 2:33 PM 

I found the link for the image at reply #9 was inactive or damaged. This is a substitute if needed for the image in a second file view. Same image, just a repeat. The other may be repaired or working later.
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Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 11



PostPosted: February 9, 2009 4:00 PM 

The bright material at the low central area of the image at #9 & #10 above, just beyond the dune in the forground of the image, is this assembly of very well ordered but still relatively simnple items. These match other items in this and other photos from the North polar region dunes.
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This is a 4X view, and is rather pixellated and blurred.

Ben


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PostPosted: February 9, 2009 10:45 PM 

Dana; Based on the geographic location of these features I think they are ice related and the slides remind one of alpine snow behavior but the material involved and the debris produced is quite different from the snow and ice we know.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 13



PostPosted: February 10, 2009 10:33 AM 

In a recent topic I introduced, here on marsroverblog.com, I presented some images of this and other HiRISE photos of these dunes and bright material patches, showing similar detailed closeups of the bright material where the mounds which are concentric ringed, and well shaped, have dominated the growth of the bright material at some time. In these closeups of the locale,
x= 22250
y= 4200
this appearance of an active mound in progress is found. This may be a case of excessive attempts to resolve small objects, but it works well the surroundings as a reasonable altered image, perhaps. Getting to this small a detailed view is really the limits of viewing without better technique. Hopefully someone can improve on this view of the spot.
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What would we think of these in the understanding that these are present in large number in this area, and may be one of the common items across the poles on Mars? I can see the very well ordered assembly, the possible current construction, or apparent activity at these mounds, and we can see the bright materials in motion across the lower elevations of the local dunes towards these bright deposit mounded masses.
As we would both normally consider the low elevation objects such as these to be 'fossil' relicts of older geological features, can we also give them a second view as possibly newer and fairly recent constructions , possibly under growing conditions under the surface?
The patch-quilts of broken tiled bright surfaces show recent deformation and unfilled cracked surfaces. the materials shoe recent interaction with the nearby current dunes. The dunes have moved in slides downward towards the bright deposits, but do not cover them in the low between the dunes. This requires that the dunes are not spreading by deepening the lower ground cover in the lows, but are capable of interacting with the low spots which are bright and clearly a very differing material.
Is it really possible for the dunes to be sliding with this volume of movement downward, with a lack of dune debris covering the bright materials?
Are the two materials a single process of growth and interaction?

I know this is understood as a very cold location. The analogy to avalanche conditions of temperatures and dry atmosphere is seemingly proper according to the measurements we have. The landslides to my, however seem to be appearing very restrictive, and not in secondary motion beyond the primary slide activity.
What would be causing the secondary movement of the bright deposits and fine dust aspect towards the bright materials? Where are the dust and bright movement materials which should be now accumulating and dominating the surface levels of the lowest bright solid patterned mounds and concentric ringed structures? These are massive structures for organized objects. Some of the ringed structures are incorporating other local mounds. There is a viewable dearth of finer sediments, small dunes, and loose bright materials at the organized mounds. The evacuation of the lows would have to be very efficient to clear these lowest bright material structures.

Ben


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PostPosted: February 10, 2009 6:46 PM 

Dana; The secondary features you point out could just be a result of this material being exposed to atmospheric conditions and the lack of finer sediment could be due to the slides being fairly rtecent.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 15



PostPosted: February 11, 2009 10:32 AM 

The detailed closeup views have so many items in them, however, Ben. I am looking at this image part time for more than a week, and so many items come into view at 2X to 4X size range. I can see a class of repeating object types which are unlike anything I have ever seen on Earth. These are very well shaped and distinctly Martian in content and nature I am sure.
Here is a view of one item buried in the thick CO2 ice on the far end of the image, well set apart from the items I have displayed to this point in the topic. This item looks closer to a recognizable item than other shapes.
Within this 4X view there are, at the right side, a concentric pattern with mounded shaping, several smaller(many feet in diameter) central spheroids with rings of 'petaled' concentric shapes, and a thick coating of blue ice, mostly CO2 by reportage from the HiRISE site.
Explaining the theme of a bright linear structure which was apparently running lengthwise through the core of the dune crest is interesting to me. I can see several of these buried dark points of emergence from the dune faces which are the same part of dunes which tend to produce the slides from the upper crests.
I can see here a deeper CO2 ice deposit at the upper crest of the dune face as a deep blue color, right where the slides would be expected. The weight and movement of CO2 ice at the dune crest may be a activating process, or the dark spot and the bright linear item may be part of a weakness factor in the dune structure and historical development. How much variation would CO2 ice give, as alternative to our common H2O ice on Earth?
What would the bright material be? I can see the linear processes emerging from the dune faces as single linear rod-like structures at times. The shaping of the bright cylindrical objects, measured in feet in diameter, do not seem to vary when emerging from the dune faces. The bright horizontal assemblies, however seem to be deeply etched by former burial in prior dune overburden conditions in appearances. I believe the materials etching the bright deposits is related to both deep CO2 burial and the dust cover as much as dune burial. Some active process is organizing the overall scene.
Would we find on Mars an organizing influence in CO2 ice alone?
The detailed bright materials at times show great 3D elaboration of surface detailing. I know Earth conditions will not often show the turbulent organization of the bright materials in any types of minerals I have seen, without a supporting matrix supporting the materials in 3D elevated buoyancy against gravity controlled terms. I;ll find examples of that to present. I will also present a few examples of the dune core emergence of the linear bright material and the dark apparent former points of emergence.

These are views a 4X size, first the real appearance approximately of the nearly transparent ice cover, and second the ice appearance diminished by color selection to show the scene without much ice density.
The images are sharpened to about 2.2 and 1.96 respectively, the location of the linear item:
x= 6600
y= 32400

PSP_010546_2615 ,color JP2. Rotated for coverage by length. As this is with the vertical orientation tilted left somewhat, you will have to compensate for gravity effects in descent of materials by angle.
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A view of the scene with the ice diminished in visual effect.
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I am not moving from discussing mounds and causes of scaled patterned shapes, just adding a new pattern to a list. The concept of the dunes carrying a linear structure internally routinely intrigues me. It reminds me that all this dune structure could be cast in the current relative positions, highly altered to a different appearance, slowly transforming.

I would like to think this was a active scene of materials assembling. Is this a routine decay and breakdown process, or are both process directions underway in the scene?

Images are from the HiRISE site at source, using IAS viewer for JP2 file imaging.

Ben


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PostPosted: February 11, 2009 3:45 PM 

Dana; I see some of the features you mention but I can't be sure if they are real or not.
As you know I tend to lean to the least complicated explanation and in this case I can envision the material contains a CO2 ice component that is showing decay and repetitive features would not be unusual.
I don't see any evidence of additional new material.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 17



PostPosted: February 11, 2009 4:12 PM 

The CO2 is certainly dominant in the scenes throughout this image. This small lower left corner section shows the degree of semi-transparent ice hanging on the dune face, waiting for gravity and the sun to strike a blow.
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I find the patterns in the deep ice quite unusual to my routine viewing. I know many see these scenes as common in the Mars images, however.

Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 18



PostPosted: February 12, 2009 3:25 PM 

Can we presume the dunes actively transferring the CO2 or other ice and chemistry at these temperatures throughout the length of the long dark linear processes which seen throughout the big picture? The analogy to an Earth type suspended capillary maintenance of a large bulk of liquid or dense gas, perhaps even a mobile ice type transfer process appears active. No real liquid drainage here, but a process of movement and re-infusion along paths seasonally, or daily, with climate changes certainly.
I see a fairly active interaction process with the slides hidden by an ice cover in present conditions.
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The bright material is both buried along one side of the large image dune view, and apparently no longer covered by the ice at the far end of the large image frame coverage. Two conditions of the dunes at two nearby locations with many examples.
The movement of materials requires a series of paths which would record the movement in alterations as a layered terrain set of features. The buildup of material solids should be underway, or paths of removal should be recorded as a long term process.
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Another view of the same location, rotated for a length-wise viewing extension. This color balance selection is a little saturated and almost looks cartoonish, but the details are better seen this way. I can see barely visible transparent ice structures along the dune face which gradually disappear above the bright material. I cannot see the limits of the ice clearly.
The darker blue deep transport or storage lanes or fractures are even halo margined at the steep face.
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I have seen a few item types which match other items at the opposing ends of the photo. I will find the repeated items and present them eventually. These items must be based upon a crystallographic pattern or other controlled shaping process. I don't see the items as basic mineral or combined simple environmental constructions.

As the bright deposits have 'tails' which clearly not at the same horizontal elevations, can we assume these are constructions of more recent timing than the large dark dunes? I assume the bright materials cannot be formed upon stratified lens of basic material in some previous 'in situ' setting. I see a developed series of deposits, as no where are the bright materials overlying the dark dunes in pieces are parts. There is no record here of disassembled bright masses overlying the dark dunes as impacts should have produced. This appears very active and interactive as a pair of materials.
The blue ice, reported as CO2 by HiRISE sources, seems to be a third material in the interaction processes.
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Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 19



PostPosted: February 12, 2009 4:13 PM 

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Dana Johnson


Posts: 1150

Reply: 20



PostPosted: February 13, 2009 2:08 PM 

Both exposed and buried in the bright material between the large dunes are a number of intriguing item types. There are repeated examples of items, variations of item types, and a non- geological set of appearances in some.
The ordered appearances requires some method of explaining the presence of a construction process which causes the objects to be more resistant than the materials in which they are buried partly.
There is so much repetition of items that these are the dominant character of the large JP2 photo in closeup viewing.
.

.
The scene at 4 to 1 size. This is the closest view obtainable in the JP2 viewer, IAS viewer from ITT.
The original was rotated a few degrees.
The location is
x= 5066
y= 33802
sharpened to 1.72,
size set 4 to 1.
.

.

This closeup is taken from the center of the reply #19 entry overview image section. The location is about midway across the bright material near the center, and shows a bright material and blue tinted set of concentric rings which appear to be spheres set one inside the other, with a background of dune material, giving the depth of the bright rings or spheres as above the common ground plane for the image details. The rings are very low in contrast in comparison to the surrounding more opaque bright mounds, and other shapes.
This is not material from deeper deposits. This is a partly transparent structure which rests above the darker dune materials.

The spheroid with the apparent manufactured ribbed collar, and the rod-like extension, is an item type which is seen in variations across the main image.
The item is partly buried in fairly well organized bright deeper materials which are partly covered by blue ice or whatever the chemistry content of the transparent blue material.

Does this appear to be a scene from a geology textbook lesson?
Can anyone explain the content seen here?

I have not signifigantly changed any content in the image other than choosing the bandwidth of the colors as an aid in contrast selection.
I'll try to collect a few additional examples of variations of these, and if anyone can aid me in ID details for these, please assist.
We need a mineralogist for this blog to help. Geologists may find this a challenge to deal with.

With all examples we have found over the past five years, is there any geological or mineralogical description for the items being found?
Can geology produce items which appear to be manufactured in details?
Can these be considered possible fossils at the size scale involved?

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